One man’s view of pvp
Edit: To clarify, the Icex posts which prompted me to write this thread is found here.
https://forums.505go.com/discussion/32022
TL:DR - The current pvp system artificially forces the elite with the typical players. No matter how you tweak the current system, as long as the elite players are playing with the typical players, the typical players will be crushed mercilessly. Changing the shield system will not help in curbing the high scores, because the elite players will find a way to beat the system. The best solution will be to separate the elite from the typical players, by having a league system. Note: I want to keep the current system as it is, but if d3 wants to change things, they should only look at changing the competition structure.
Disclaimer: I don’t consider myself an elite player even though I can hit 1300 when I want to. I have 3 max 4*, and about 15 max 3*. I belong to the “legendary” LINE battle chat group, but I think it’s impact is overestimated.
Definition: Elite players, in my definition, are players who regularly go beyond the top progression rewards, simply for the thrill of it. Majority of the elite players already have max out characters. They don’t need the covers, but they want the thrill and prestige of being the top in the PVP. And more importantly, they want their alliance to be top. They would spend hundreds of HP on shield hopping for this prestige.
Typical players are players who play with a rational approach in minimising their HP expenses and maximizing their rewards. These may include players who are F2P, or those who have purchased some covers.
Introduction
Icex has recently posted that D3 is reviewing the shield mechanics, possibly in response to the score inflation. When D3 introduce the shield cool downs, the scores reached as high as 1500 points. Scores reached back to a “normal”, but after a few more seasons, elite players (from top alliances) once again reach a new high. Just see the top scores of the crewsaders in pool party, with their top players reaching 3K points.
This new high is likely to prompt D3 to once again tweak the shield system.
My worry is that when they tweak the shield system, it will have an adverse impact on the typical average players. Hence I want to encourage a constructive open discussion about the shield system and the pvp system.
Evolution of Shield System
In the old, old days of PVP, there was no shields. The pvp is like a Battle Royale, where everyone attack and kill each other. Even if you are very strong, as long as you have enough points, the zombie horde will attack you and take you down. In those days, the winner of the pvp is determined solely by the last hour action. It doesn’t matter how high you reach in the 2 days of pvp, the deciding factor of your placement and progression is determine solely by the last hour grinding. This is much like our current lightning rounds and pve.
Shields were originally designed by D3 to “protect” your scores. The players can push as much as possible, shield up to “rest up” or attend to RL tasks, then break shield to push again. It was a great hit and it achieve it’s intention of allowing players to play when they can.
Soon after the introduction of shield, an elite player found a way to uss the shield reach high scores.Shield hopping was discovered. In shield hopping, the players make use of the facts that 1) when shielded, players cannot be queued up in new nodes, 2) when you unshield, you have a few minutes of lead time to complete your match. As long as you finish your match quickly, you are unlikely to be hit. It works best when you have a high hp team, because it takes your opponent more time to take you out, giving you more time during your hop.
This shield hop technique quickly catch on, and soon after, it evolved into the well coordinated battle chats. More and more players started using it.
While shield hop was first discovered by an elite player, it is not limited to an elite player. A typical player can also use it. A 3 player can also use shield hop.* My first shield hop team was actually 3* Hulk and 3* Lcap. That was my best team that I could use against those stronger teams, and I limit myself to 1-2 games hop. It worked mostly as I go in with full boost. Speed is relative, and the benefit of shield hops is that it allows you to try to go beyond your current tier.
D3 noticed the shield hop technique, and clamped it down by introducing shield cooldowns. The premise is that you only have limited shields you can use per pvp, and will reduce the number of available hops. It worked, and reduced the scoring… For a while.
Since the shield cooldowns were introduced, the frequency of hops were reduced. But the coordination of the battle chats became better. Truces were maintained between different alliances, such that you hit a player only after he is shielded, which is a win win situation for everyone. Enforcers were created, such that the player who broke the truce, are punished repeatedly. Both serves as a carrot and stick, carrot as if you follow the truce, it is easier to get top progression reward; and the stick because if you don’t follow the truce, you will get sniped repeatedly.
Such well oiled coordination (along with the max point increase to 75 pts) give rise to the new score record of 3000+ pts.
Proposed Solutions - the cure is worse than the disease
Some players who are not on LINE chat are upset with such situation (even though the LINE chats are not exclusive, and if anyone ask, they can be invited). They proposed many “solutions” that they think could “fix” the situation.
While their intention may be good, I will argue that none of the solutions will work. The logic is that 1) elite players will continue to find ways to beat the system, be it through better coordination through out of game comms, or through ingenious way of playing the game. 2) typical players, esp players who don’t whale, will lose a current set of tool, to help them punch beyond their weight. 3) elite players will work together through outside coordination, and there is no way to stop it 4) as long as elite players are put together with typical players, typical players will generally be rank below them, as the elite players will spend more HP than the the typical players. The elite players will always get greater scores for their own pride and alliance pride.
Let me run through some of the proposed solutions, and see how it will affect typical players, and how the elite players can beat it.
- Breaking shields remove all queues/ unable to queue players while shielding. This proposal assumed that if the elite players cannot keep their queue, then they can shield hop over each other.
This will work in reducing shield hops. However, this only affects the typical players, and would barely stop the elite players.
Possible elite player counter: both players unshield at the same time. 1st player will hit any 2 random queues, while the 2nd player queue up the 1st player. After the 1st player is shielded, he will notify it on the BC, and the 2nd player will then be able to hit the 1st player, without causing the first player to lose points.
Typical player experience: they break shield, and then find themselves only having single digit point targets. They try to search for good queues, but alas all the top scorers are already shielded, so no luck. If they linger too long, they fall prey to the zombie horde.
- Unable to queue own alliance members. This works under the assumption that the shield hop players hop with members of the same alliance. So if they can’t hop with the same members, shield hop won’t work.
This proposal is too simple minded and will not stop shield hopping. There are already multiple alliances BC, in which players hop with members of other alliances. Even for small alliances, they can hop within themselves, by jumping to another alliance. Then they shield hop off each other, and get back to the same alliance in the last minute.
- Unable to see points or name of the queue. This proposal assumes that if you can’t see who the target is, then they can’t shield hop effectively.
Again, this is a naive solution. It won’t work.
Possible elite player counter: elite players can make their queues “more recognisable”, by inserting unique combinations of team. Example if I put in a bagman in the team, you will immediately know it’s me when you queue me up. (Don’t laugh, it has been done before in the past in the old days of sentry bombing).
There are also other solutions of identifying the team. I can put in 2 characters of level 253… I can put in 3 characters of level 253, 254 and 255. Or 257, 265, 270. There are simply many many ways of making my team more recognisable than the average team.
Typical player experience: as they can’t see the points of their nodes, it become a jackpot of whether they get a good queue or bad queue. This ruins the gaming experience, just see the numbers of threads they complain that they get less points. If this proposal is implemented, they will complain about why the system give them single digit nodes.
In short, none of the proposed solutions will seriously hamper the elite players in shield hopping. However, it will definitely make the typical players experience worse. Also, it make it more difficult for players to find a way to punch above their weight.
So what will really help?
My view is that the only solution is to separate the elite from the typical players. Give them a play ground to prove their worth, maybe a platinum league. Move the alliance scoring board over there, and let them menace with each other over there.
Make the pvp all about hitting progression rewards for the typical players.
What should the platinum league be like? I don’t know what it should have, but I know that the elite players don’t play for covers nor HP. The typical players care about about the 4* covers availability, but not the elite players. They play for the thrill and the pride.
I know this is my own view of pvp. I just hope that this generate some discussion of how we want the “new” shield system to be like.
