Are 4* characters worth the effort?

Marvel Puzzle Quest MPQ General Discussion
1

Greetings and Salutations,

After watching the current discussion on the upcoming changes to characters in the game, it seems 4* Thor was a fluke and not the symbol of a new power tier that many high level players were hoping for. Out of curiosity and in order to give the devs some helpful feedback, I wish to know what others think about the effort, time and HP (or money) required to cover and level max a 4* character.

In order to get the ball rolling, let’s consider the current state of 4* in MPQ.

There are currently 7 ways to acquire 4 covers*

  1. Character introduction PvE placement (most recently the Hunt for 4* Charles Xavier)
  2. Season Alliance Rewards (the first way to acquire 4* Nick Fury covers)
  3. PvP progression reward (currently set at 1000 points)
  4. PvP placement (1st ranking)
  5. PvE placement (Top 2 ranking)
  6. Daily Rewards (Devil Dinosaur rewards at Day 365-367)
  7. Tokens (Luck)

Of course, after acquiring a 4* cover you have the option to buy another one at 2500 Hero Points.

Currently there are eight 4* characters in the game with more coming in the future. If I were to put them in a rough tier ranking, it would go something like this:

High Tier
X-Force Wolverine

Mid Tier
Thor (post nerf)
Nick Fury
Devil Dinosaur
Professor X

Low Tier
Star Lord
Elektra
Invisible Woman

In general, Low Tier 4* are not considered viable in PvP, Mid Tier 4* are seen as a viable option against High Tier 3* characters, and High Tier characters are dominant.

With that being said, considering the amount of effort it takes to acquire a 4* and the amount of ISO it takes to level the character, it just doesn’t feel like it’s worth the effort to compete for 4* characters. Which leaves me with my current stance of just hitting progressions rewards for the worthwhile 4* characters and picking up the rest of the covers from tokens and daily rewards

What do you think? Are 4* characters worth the effort? What changes would you make, if any?

References
MPQ Community Video March 2015 on Upcoming character changes (https://forums.505go.com/discussion/25816)
Bowing out (mostly) gracefully- bonfire’s retirement post (https://forums.505go.com/discussion/25407)
Please change 4* pve reward structure (https://forums.505go.com/discussion/25222)
Player X vs the Hunt: Based on a True story (https://forums.505go.com/discussion/25760)
Would you rather fight Elektra than 3* question and discussion (https://forums.505go.com/discussion/25384)

2

I wouldn’t consider Star Lord low tier, Devil Dino at the very least should be considered low tier before him.

That aside, a mid-ranged 4* will typically be avoided by players. Would you fight a 166 Thor (top tier 3*) or a 270 Devil Dino (bottomish tier 4*)? They have an HP advantage and typically a damage advantage even when they aren’t very good. This gains you the ability to push closer to the 1k mark before having to shield hop, a very important factor when moving up in this game. You save a ton of HP.

This is assuming of course you don’t have a full team of 4s. If you already have 3, then unless a better tier 4 comes out, there is no real reason to level any others.

3

you hit the nail on the head with this explanation.

ill just add this. even if all you had was an invisble woman maxed at 270 you would be an instaskip for if you werernt worth 22 points or more. so yeah like he said you could continue to use 3* but thats if you wanna forever struggle for top 50. with a 4* and A GRIND , climbing is much easier

4

i’m not really sure at the moment if they are worth it, baring x-force at the moment. to play for them why not, maybe they will get buffed in the future. Since the devs started nerfing 4*s i would be hesitant to invest any real money in any of them as it takes $100 to max them and they can be debuffed out of the gate, policy kicks in though, or in 6 months down the line, screwed, with what ever refund you can get from d3, yikes, or 3rd party. I don’t see myself getting top place consistently so it will be with token luck, sigh.

5

CD tiles are unreliable, huge health deters attacks. so within the vacuum of high competition pvp, dino > vamplord. i’d agree with fight on that one.
and yes, i’d always fight a team with lazythor over dino. its all about speed. and if i’m denying yellow and green anyways i never have to worry about lazythor. would i regularly use dino over lthor? well thats a diff thing altogether then…back on topic..

unless a 4* is at the current xforce tier, then no… they are not worth the effort to grind pves, lightning rounds for iso, and whatever else grinding you need for the godforsaken amount of iso required to lvl them. perhaps if you so happen to come across enough of their covers, then sure maybe lvl them to 166 or something to add another disposable body to your roster. but then you’re just treating them like a 3*. and that’s how i see 4or post-nerf. a 3* with a ton of health. which i guess is the definition now for 4s. actually, ‘a ton’ would really only apply to 4or and dino. anyways, 19ap for damage comparable to something like luke cage’s yellow for 13ap? yea, ok 4or produces stun and some charged tiles. depending on the board, those 5 charged tiles will be like CD tiles- unreliable. stun is nice, so let’s just call it mostly a wash, edge to 4or. anyways, the point isnt to compare abilities. the point is that the cost to buy 4 covers and the amount of iso required to lvl them just…isn’t worth the effort. relative to comparable 3s who are more readily usable and available. would i use a max 4 if i had them or they dropped out of the sky? would i sink iso into a 4* if i’ve already maxed all my 3s? well yes of course. but again, effort-wise, i’d no longer prioritize 4s over 3*s. unless they are xforce tier.

6

Xforce is worth the effort, no-one else is.

I’m not saying that Fury and post nerf Thor wouldn’t be considered an improvement, albeit a small one, over the best 3*s (and its arguable if the difference in numbers translates to a practical difference in scoring) BUT considering the difficulty in obtaining covers and the much larger ISO investment they probably aren’t worth the amount of effort you have to put into them.

Also agree Starlord probably isn’t “low tier” even taking his CD tiles into account. His damage per AP is, IMO, probably enough to outweigh the CD tiles (still not good enough to merit the effort to get him IMO).

The poll needs to have an option to put Xforce is and the rest probably aren’t so I can vote 8).

One last thing… assuming you have top tier 3s and don’t have anyone good left to level up then I don’t see why you wouldn’t level up 4s because, basically you have nothing better to do. I had popped levels into Fury, Starlord and even Elektra for that reason (not maxed but improved). It still doesn’t mean they are worth the effort though IMO (Elektra only needs covers to be amazing vs lvl 300+ Maggia muscles…the only instance where she is worthwhile at all icon_e_smile.gif
)

I wouldn’t skip a lvl 270 IW, it’s less irritating than almost every 3* anyone would ever field and has less health than lazy Thor… just saying.

7

There was node in Simulator with Invis Woman/Bagman/Venom. And in that team, Venom was most dangerous enemy over 5/5/5 IW. That’s how bad she is.

I would say most non-XF aren’t worth the effort. PvP is still about shield hopping and if you are worth enough points you will get hit even if you field Dino/T4or/Hulk, with only advantage that you have slightly more time to make your matches before shielding. And PvE, well… since starting level of nodes is based around your average roster level of your highest characters, you are shooting yourself in the foot leveling them. You will face way harder enemies while you just have ‘3* with more health’, while at same time your standard 3* will be less efficient.

Although I have to say, most 4* seems to be made so they are fun to play. Full Avenger Assemble and trap tiles that gib whoever triggers them, hidden Strike tiles while being able to deflect any attack, charged tiles, ultra-mega invisible falcon, ability spam with Star Lord, cascades with XForce, Force Field Bubbles being unique mechanic. All that stuff makes 4* feel diffrent than playing with usual 3*, it just that most of this stuff just doesn’t work in competitive PvE and PvP, and you have to be on absolute top of those to get those characters in first place. Whether or not having 4* being very rare and expensive trophies is open debate, but at very least they shouldn’t count that high for PvE.

8

This is a VERY BIG problem for the future. When I leveled my XForce to 222 I clearly noticed that the levels of my enemies raised 30-50 lvls. Of course, XForce is so good that I didn’t care (when I can use him icon_razz.gif
). Afterwards I leveled 4hor to 222 and PvE became easier, until next week. But a really big problem for the future is going to be when XForce is nerfed, because we will have extremly high PvE levels and nothing to fight them :S

PS: PvE is why I don’t level 4* past the 222 lvl barrier, allmost as good as a 270, and PvE scaling doesn’t go through the roof icon_razz.gif

9

No.

The only way to get a good 4* army is with TONS of time and likely plenty of money invested.

When I was 2* I looked up at the three 4*'s available and shrugged - I was never going to get these. On my trip to 3* land I got the three X-force draws, two X-force season rewards, and a couple lucky pulls of his (easier to pull multiples when there were only three - rather than the constantly growing number today). I gave up buying roster slots once they hit a crazy 800hp each, and I’ve slowly bought the rest of the X-forces. Maybe I can get to 4* land after all, I think to myself! 5/5/2, nearly there for one!

Tomorrow is day 365 for me. Let’s look at my 4*'s, shall we?
Thor - 3/1/1 (all from introduction event and season rewards)
Star Lord - 1/1/1 (all from introduction event and season rewards)
Elektra - 2/1/1 (all from introduction event and season rewards)
Prof X - 0/1/0 (all from introduction week)
Dino - 1/1/2 (all from introduction week. Will be more tomorrow on daily rewards)
Nick Fury - 2/0/1 (What the…I actually pulled one Fury! Shocking! The others from season rewards)
IW - 4/3/1 (Pulled a couple of these - again, when there were only two and then three 4*'s available to pull)
XF - 5/5/2 (story above, bought some)

In a YEAR I I have pulled ONE cover total of the most recent six 4’s!* I’m beginning to believe the draw rates aren’t the pitiful 0.1% or whatever the tokens list them as. I haven’t sniffed T1 in any PVE or PVP, I’ve only two or three times broken 800 in PVP (never over 900, I’m sure I could try to sp).

So obviously I’m not willing to put in the time and HP commitment to get the 4*'s. I -was- willing to put in the monitary commitment to put Thor to max - but then the nerfs came before the sale, and I see there isn’t any reason to put any money into these, ever. I’m willing to put in the time commitment in longevity - but at 364 days I’ve seen three X-force and two IW covers through daily rewards. I do think all the 4*'s should come after 200 days but before 365. Perhaps they can be given out a second time as a slow trickle a 2nd time during year two.

If the release rate is going to be so high, the ways to get them need to be increased. Drop rate must go up, HP and ISO must go up to level them (the whales have said this). Their power should go up - if the Devs think they should be high-health 3*, why bother getting them at all?

So now, deep in 3* land, I’ve reverted back to my 2* land thought - shrug my shoulders and give up on 4*. I’m leveling and covering the 3*'s, and enjoying that for as long as I can. It’s not worth the time, effort, and money to get characters that are incredibly difficult and rare to get. But on the plus side – apparently they aren’t supposed to be the best characters out there but rather just “trophies”, so I don’t have to worry about acquisition.

10

4* Roster:

270 3/5/5 Invisible Woman (part of a bet with an alliancemate that I could max her before he could max Xforce or 4hor)
270 5/5/3 Fury
270 5/3/5 4hor
270 5/5/3 Wolverine
157 5/3/4 Elektra
114 5/2/4 Star Lord
111 2/2/1 Professor X
82 2/4/5 Devil Dino

I bought (2?) Thor blue covers during that Avengers PvP between seasons a few months ago, other than that all other covers were obtained through packs + play.

Xforce I use all the time, Fury saw quite a bit of late PvP or hard PvE usage before I had a maxed 4hor (he seems about on par with C. Magneto with a slight advantage on high hp teams / disadvantage on low hp ones) - still seems some use in PvE, 4hor gets used all the time. Elektra gets some very sporadic use when everyone else is dead, the others are never touched.

A thought I came up with the other day might cause me to use the other 4* more: Because of the difficulty in obtaining 4 covers (other than direct purchase), should their leveling cost be greatly reduced?* In order to fully cover one it seems to take 4+ months of constant play (with that time frame increasing every time a new 4* is added to the pool) so I’d imagine the average player with a maxed 4* purchased at least a few of the covers. If the leveling cost was dropped to 100k or 170k I would probably consider capping Elektra + Star Lord. Currently you are spending 3x the ISO (4-6 weeks worth) to level a character that is weaker than a top tier 3* (which takes roughly 2 weeks to level).

11

I would much rather max out IF, cyclops, cage, loki, and lazy thor before I were to max out any 4* besides xforce and 4hor. So the answer is no, they are not worth the effort. Aside from the fact they get released weak, they also will get nerfed even months down the road if they are not weak. The time you spend saving ISO and collecting covers through events climbing and grinding away…no not worth it. Their new policy has done nothing to restore any consumer confidence for this customer as it relates to 4* characters and the chase to acquire them…there isn’t any point to. You have high damage dealing alternative 3*s that you can max in a fraction of the time and effort.

12

Answer is no.
It will break your game if you play PVE.

Even Heroic PVE is broken, because levels are “trivial” (read = scaled to 270 X-Force), but I lose every third game. There are nine nodes in second sub in this Heroic PVE end there are 3 from them, I beat only by pure luck/random.

And even if you have 270 XF a GT it doesn´t guarantee you 1000 points in PVP.

13

Yes.

As much as I want to say no for terrible characters like Elektra and IW the answer remains the same. Actions speak louder than words and when it comes down to it..I’ll spend HP trying to hop to obtain a 4* progression reward cover that I don’t have. Even if I deem the character useless and never intend to level them.

My actions as a player aside…

I’d say that mid and high tier 4* are worth it because they add to your roster diversity and longevity and play time. These are characters with 10,000+ hit points and are on par or slightly better than the best of 3*'s. I wouldn’t classify Devil Dino as mid tier though…he’s low tier in my opinion.

I don’t use Fury in PvP much but he’s my first go to replacement choice whenever Thor or XF are not an option. I consider him more valuable on offense than characters like IF. I can see myself doing the same with Xavier but we’ll see if that’s a reality when he’s fully leveled. I think these characters will see regular weekly play more than enough to justify the effort. Especially when the few key 3* have already been leveled to their appropriate max. I’d rather put ISO into Xavier than relatively new characters like Rags, Squirrel Girl, Gamora, Colossus, ect.

It’s important to note how I define ‘worth the effort’ here.

  • Are these characters worthy of pushing from 900 to 1000 in pvp to get the prog reward? Absolutely.
  • Are these characters worthy of pushing for 1st place in PvP? No. Too competitive.
  • Are these characters worth being in a top 100 alliance to get their cover reward? Yes.
  • Are these characters worth the hp of a roster slot? Yes.
  • Are these characters worth buying 8+ covers worth to finish? No (save for XF)
  • Are these characters worth buying ISO to level? Never
  • Are these characters worth buying 1 or 2 covers to finish off a key skills? Typically, yes. If you have a 443 XF then I’d say the HP is worth it to go 553. I’d also say bumping Fury from 433 to 453 is worth the HP.
14

Fair point, I do still collect 4* covers I just don’t intend on grinding pve events anymore or plan on maxing them…I just plan on collecting them in the hopes that one day they get an xforce like buff. That’s kind of the sad state of 4* cover play for me…hoping a lump of coal turns into a diamond.

15

Assuming you are not including Xforce, no 4 stars are not worth the effort.

Thor used to be, but she is about to fall hard.

Fury is decent, but he is slow, unsustained and bad on defense.

Star Lord, Elektra and IW are garbage. Below 3 star tier.

And Xavier is niche at best.

16

If I were to give advice to transitioning players, I would recommend going for 3 maxed 3* than any 4* other than 4hor or Xforce. Fury is pretty good but 3 mid-tier 3*'s would probably serve you better in PvE.

You left out are these characters worth the ISO? I’ll do what I can to get the covers but the ISO is what really kills it. I can spend 262k to take my Elektra to level 250 or 269k to max Cyclops + Doctor Doom. I’m pretty sure Cyclops + Doom will see more play time / save more health kits than Elektra ever would.

17

My x-force is at 5/3/1 and lvl 166. he will remain there until I have more black covers for him AND another 4* covered to level up with him. So, likely never…for whatever reason i still shield hopped to get a red Thor in Army of One, go figure.

18

Depends on the character.

X-Force: Yes. You want him tanking TU’s since he’s a true healer. This keeps the rest of your team alive and ultimately makes him a more intimidating presence defensively.

Fury: No. I ran Fury as early as level 130 range and he was strong. I’m not about to presume what level is optimal for Fury but I kept him at 222 for several seasons before eventually maxing him after I had taken care of more important characters.

Xavier: Yes. Again, I’m assuming this character is going to live up to his potential when I say this. I don’t have him maxed out in levels first hand yet. The fact is…Xavier MUST tank as much as possible to be great. His invisibility makes him a great long lasting character to boot. Seems well worth the ISO on paper.

Thor: Pre-Nerf Yes. The HP is worth it alone since she has no true heal and will take a beating.
Post-Nerf: To be determined. I think she’ll still be worth it long term for the same reason but she should be put on low priority. More important than Fury but probably not worth leveling over high tier 3* characters.

19

It sounds to me like you are basing their worth of obtaining more on lack of any other progression than are they really worth it. And that bodes REALLY, REALLY poorly for the game health. Its a major reason Bonfire uninstalled…and has me pondering where Im trying to go. The last couple months i spent trying to get SheThor covers. Now what? Is there anything worth the level of time commitment the game requires to stay competitive? I just dont think so.

20

To add some context where i’m coming from in regards to this topic:

As of today my 4hor stands at 4/4/4 (thanks to the progression reward from Army of One). For the last 4 months i have been playing pretty hardcore chasing after her covers. The only exception being for 1st in pVp because the odds were too heavily stacked against me. (i did try once, but failed when i was out maneuvered by a member of The Punishers who made a miracle leap to 1st). If my memory serves me correctly, then:

3 of my covers were from Top 5 finish of her intro pVe
7 of my covers were from progression rewards in pVp
2 of my covers were from Top 2 finishes in pVe

i suppose it is worth noting that i am not in a top 100 alliance and if i had been i would have surely cover maxed my 4hor at least 1 month and a half ago.

originally i intended to go the popular build of 5/3/5 but as fate would have it i ended up with 3/4/4 build and came to like being able to use 4hor to deal with goons in pve so i was seriously considering going 4/4/5 as i play (or at least used to play) both pVe and pVp competitively.

That all changed, however, with news of the nerf. Actually, minus the yellow cd tile clearage my current 4hor probably operates roughly the same as the post nerf 4hor (the exception being Smite). To be frank, i knew from the get-go that a nerf was inevitable but when you are competing with Thorverine’s constantly in pVp for top spots you do what you can to try to catch up.

Ironically, i also recently reached the ideal build for Fury. It took a lot longer than my quest for 4hor but it was a far less stressful experience. However, the major reason i didn’t stress over Fury is because i had considered him obsolete. Fury pretty much vanished as soon as 4hor came into the picture.

i suppose you could say i’m disappointed with the nerf (although i was much more outraged with the IF fiasco which for the record i didn’t buy covers for but we need not go into that here). After reading bonfire’s retirement post and hearing the devs discussion of the 4* tier, i will definitely be going back to the more casual side of being a casual hardcore player.

Don’t get me wrong. i hold myself responsible for the amount of time and effort i put into chasing 4hor and with this nerf i realized it’s just not worth it considering my situation. Perhaps if i were in a Top100 alliance things would have been easier but them’s the breaks, gotta play with the hand i’m dealt with.

i will say that i have been enjoying taking it easy on MPQ this past week. DDQ is a godsend and pVp still has its charms. i tried my best to keep up with the top but now i’m just going to play at my own pace. v('-^)

Now having gotten all that off my chest, back to the matter at hand:
(○´･д･)ﾉ-------------------------------------------------------------ｷﾘﾄﾘ線---------------------------------------------------------------ヽ(･д･`●)

First order of business is to address some of the points that have been brought up:

X-Force is worth it

Unfortunately I cannot change the poll now as we all know it wipes the previous data but i will keep count of those that share that sentiment and record it here (currently at 2). So for those that believe the current version of X-Force is worth the blood, sweat and HP, please do let your voice be heard.

I do want to point out, however, that X-Force (and Invisible Woman) was much easier to acquire for those that started out early enough than it is to acquire the next generation of 4*. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t they once have the highest chance of dropping in Standard Tokens?

Star Lord vs Devil Dinosaur

The reason I ranked Devil Dinosaur higher than I do Star Lord is mainly because I have never encountered Star Lord in PvP (the exception obviously being the Star Lord event) but I do run into Devil Dinosaur on occasion. That may be because anyone who has a tricked out Star Lord most likely has a max 4hor but in any case if I had to choose between fighting a Devil Dinosaur team or Star Lord team in PvP, I think I’ll take my chances with the Intergalactic outlaw. Plus I think we all know who would win in a dance off between the two icon_e_wink.gif

Star Lord is not Low Tier

Although I do believe Star Lord is PvE viable, I still think his CD tiles are too much of a risk for top level play in PvP. Obviously he is better than Elektra but the question is by how much? I openly admit I could be totally undervaluing his CD tiles but is there anyone that uses Star Lord competitively for PvP. If there is, please do share your insight into how viable he is for PvP and whether you would rank him Mid Tier or Low Tier.

4 characters and PvE scaling*

Although the devs have not revealed what determines a players scaling, it is widely believed and anecdotally verified that leveling your 4* characters will cause your PvE scaling to rise. The concern is will the devs rectify this when nerfing characters or will you be stuck with uber high scaling and not so uber 4* character? i personally haven’t leveled any of my 4* characters beyond 221 since level 360 Jugs, Muscle and what not does not sound like a lot of fun :confused:

Things to consider

I probably should have listed the ways in which to gain 4* covers in order of difficulty:

  1. Daily rewards (just play the game for many days)
  2. Token pulls (Are you lucky?)
    *3. PvP Progression rewards (Although you are going to need a strong roster and HP for shield hops)
    *4. PvE Top 2 Rank (Usually requires a lot of time and pray you are not caught in a grind fest)
    *5. Season Alliance Rewards (the better the Alliance the easier it gets?)
    *6. Character Introduction PvE (A true test of will and determination)
    *7. Placing 1st in PvP (can require a lot of HP, shield hopping and alliance assistance)

*numbers with stars indicate that these are situational and it is possible there is variation in difficulty for a given player.

Looking over the ways in which a player can achieve a 4*, it occurred to me that perhaps the only real adjustment to be made to what currently exists is with rewards structure of the Character Intro PvE.

I am not advocating for a lowering in difficulty in acquiring 4* characters. They are supposed to be rare and in theory the best characters in the game (yes, i know that is debatable)

However, we are at an impasse. The devs have made it clear that 4* characters are not supposed to be that much better than 3* but the amount of effort and resources necessary to acquire and level up said characters (and the consequences of doing so) seems off.

What can be done?

Buff all the 4 characters*

Unfortunately, that does not seem to be part of the plan for the foreseeable future. Perhaps when there are more 4* characters and more players with 4* characters the devs might do another sort of level shift but for now we will just have to consider this option unavailable.

New 4 centric game modes*

I think part of the issue when considering the utility of most of 4* is that after their initial release they are no longer required for either PvE or PvP. Obviously recycling those old PvP and occasionally requiring 4* as essential characters would be the easiest thing to do but I don’t believe there are enough high end players to justify this move considering the majority of the player base seems to be in 2* land.

What is possible is having new game modes like a Survival mode (not node) that rewards players according to progression and what not. Or Gorilla events that offer an easy (1000 ISO), normal (50 HP), difficult (3* cover) and impossible (4* cover) choice.

Although I wouldn’t modify much about the current distribution besides the Intro PvE rewards structure I do think a supplement of some kind is in order. Otherwise, if the devs continue to release 4* characters it will continually take longer and longer to cover max a character.

And as we all know there is nothing fun about having a character you can’t use.

tl;dr- If the devs continue to release more and more 4* characters it will become increasingly difficult to cover max one. A supplement of some kind (i.e. new game modes)should be considered.