All your comments are valid and golden in my book! 
Are we expected to beleive this is some type of magic shield? Boy, I sure hope somebody got fired for this blunder.
I would also add that The Marvels was a deeply weird film with the whole musical planet setpiece and then the Flerken kittens swallowing everyone while āMemoryā from Cats is playing in the background. I understand those things are not everybodyās cup of tea, but I love those scenes and had a wonderfully fun time watching the movie.
I caught Brave New World over the weekend. I found it entertaining and an odd but interesting pastiche of things lifted from other movies like the Manchurian Candidate, the Man in the Iron Mask, and Top Gun. It touched around a few points about complicity with authority and unjust imprisonment, but without any real teeth. So, yeah, it could have been a little more incisive, but in the end, the action set pieces were entertaining and the plot to build around them made enough sense.
I just saw it, and I would give it a solid B or B+. It is basically Captain America: The Force Awakens (and if anyone needs clarification on what that means I will provide).
I will say that the end did not work for me. Felt forced.
So overall, not as good as DP & Wolvie, but better than any MCU movie I can think of since Endgame.
I didnāt see the movie yet. But had a point about Cap. Steve in the comics is just the optimal human with his serum. Heās in a sense super strong, but itās not supposed to be that heās actual stronger than a human can be without powers. Heās just the strongest human there is (basically).
However, the movies definitely make it seem like Steve has some super strength.
Anyway I guess Sam in comics is pretty close to Steve because of the way it works there, strength-wise.
The saga of how strong Cap (Steve Rogers) is goes around in circles much like how strong Wolverine is. Wolverine has broken solid steel chains, cut through steel doors, punched Rogue through a solid wall and carried the weight of the Hulk on his shoulders yet he is apparently not superhumanly strong (well he is!).
A couple of things on Cap - there have been periods where Cap had super strength, notably during the original Secret Empire timeline. However that was āforgottenā after different editors and writers took over the book. Secondly, whilst not an exact copy, MCU Cap is at least partly influenced by the Ultimates version who is definitely super strong. I tend to think of MCU Steve as being a mixture of both versions, with his personality much more aligned with 616 but his power levels being Ultimate.
Let me ask the people who donāt seem to care or think it mattersā¦
When Steve, in civilian clothes, grabbed the helicopter on the roof and held it there with his own strength, that was awesome, right?
If Sam did the same thing, with no Vibranium suit on, would you still think it was awesome?
Sam should be Sam. Thereās a line from the trailer where Ross tells him heās no Steve Rogers and he replies, āYouāre right. Iām not.ā Based on Mackieās delivery, itās implied his meaning is āIām Sam Wilson. I can do things my way and still get the job done. I donāt have to be Steve.ā
Thatās the point of the film. Itās the entire point of the (neutered) movie. So, when he does stuff with the shield that makes no sense, yes, it matters.
So you went to a superhero movie expecting no superheroes? The point wasnāt so much he could do it literally with just his fists, it was that he didnāt need the supersoldier serum. But serum or not he still trained his ass off, with a literal supersoldier. Just to be clear Iām not defending the movie per se, I thought it was good but definitely not great.
@Pantera236 said:
@Borstock said:
Let me ask the people who donāt seem to care or think it mattersā¦When Steve, in civilian clothes, grabbed the helicopter on the roof and held it there with his own strength, that was awesome, right?
If Sam did the same thing, with no Vibranium suit on, would you still think it was awesome?
Sam should be Sam. Thereās a line from the trailer where Ross tells him heās no Steve Rogers and he replies, āYouāre right. Iām not.ā Based on Mackieās delivery, itās implied his meaning is āIām Sam Wilson. I can do things my way and still get the job done. I donāt have to be Steve.ā
Thatās the point of the film. Itās the entire point of the (neutered) movie. So, when he does stuff with the shield that makes no sense, yes, it matters.
So you went to a superhero movie expecting no superheroes? The point wasnāt so much he could do it literally with just his fists, it was that he didnāt need the supersoldier serum.
But that fact lessens the whole idea of who Cap is. In other words apparently the serum wasnāt needed, all Cap (or anyone apparently) had to do was train his ass off, get a Shield and he would have been Cap. That makes the serum a kind of McGuffin which definitely lessens things for me personally on Captain America.
KGB
Adamantium claws and bones explains why he can cut through doors and carry Hulk (or any massive amount of weight). But to break chains, punch people through walls or actually walk with Hulk on his shoulders all requires super human strength.
I preferred Wolverine in the early X-Men movies when he just had the healing factor and the claws/bones and wasnāt doing crazy feats of strength (I mean if he can punch someone through a wall if he even love tapped a normal person heād knock them into next week).
Problem is in each successive movie all the X-Men started doing more and more crazy things (eg Magnetos metal reach was very localized in 1st movie but by the 3rd he was flying the Golden Gate bridge which is miles long and in later movies tapping into the earths core which means the whole plastic prison thing was impossible and so on).
KGB
@KGB said:
@Pantera236 said:
@Borstock said:
Let me ask the people who donāt seem to care or think it mattersā¦When Steve, in civilian clothes, grabbed the helicopter on the roof and held it there with his own strength, that was awesome, right?
If Sam did the same thing, with no Vibranium suit on, would you still think it was awesome?
Sam should be Sam. Thereās a line from the trailer where Ross tells him heās no Steve Rogers and he replies, āYouāre right. Iām not.ā Based on Mackieās delivery, itās implied his meaning is āIām Sam Wilson. I can do things my way and still get the job done. I donāt have to be Steve.ā
Thatās the point of the film. Itās the entire point of the (neutered) movie. So, when he does stuff with the shield that makes no sense, yes, it matters.
So you went to a superhero movie expecting no superheroes? The point wasnāt so much he could do it literally with just his fists, it was that he didnāt need the supersoldier serum.
But that fact lessens the whole idea of who Cap is. In other words apparently the serum wasnāt needed, all Cap (or anyone apparently) had to do was train his **** off, get a Shield and he would have been Cap. That makes the serum a kind of McGuffin which definitely lessens things for me personally on Captain America.
KGB
The Streets of Poison story stripped Steve of the Super Soldier Serum and he ends up in a battle with Crossbones that he has to win without it. Likewise during the Captain storyline he defeats John Walker who has super human strength. So there are plenty of times we have seen Cap triumph regardless of the serum or against superior foes. No reason Sam canāt do the same.
@KGB said:
@DAZ0273 said:
The saga of how strong Cap (Steve Rogers) is goes around in circles much like how strong Wolverine is. Wolverine has broken solid steel chains, cut through steel doors, punched Rogue through a solid wall and carried the weight of the Hulk on his shoulders yet he is apparently not superhumanly strong (well he is!).Adamantium claws and bones explains why he can cut through doors and carry Hulk (or any massive amount of weight). But to break chains, punch people through walls or actually walk with Hulk on his shoulders all requires super human strength.
I preferred Wolverine in the early X-Men movies when he just had the healing factor and the claws/bones and wasnāt doing crazy feats of strength (I mean if he can punch someone through a wall if he even love tapped a normal person heād knock them into next week).
Problem is in each successive movie all the X-Men started doing more and more crazy things (eg Magnetos metal reach was very localized in 1st movie but by the 3rd he was flying the Golden Gate bridge which is miles long and in later movies tapping into the earths core which means the whole plastic prison thing was impossible and so on).
KGB
Iām not even convinced adamantium claws is enough to punch through several inches of steel - you still need to be able to generate the amount of physical force to achieve that and to do so with the ease that Wolverine does suggests a feat of strength beyond normal strength levels. Likewise even being able to penetrate Hulkās skin - unless you are strong enough the claws would just bounce off the same way bullets and even explosives do.
@DAZ0273 said:
@KGB said:
@DAZ0273 said:
The saga of how strong Cap (Steve Rogers) is goes around in circles much like how strong Wolverine is. Wolverine has broken solid steel chains, cut through steel doors, punched Rogue through a solid wall and carried the weight of the Hulk on his shoulders yet he is apparently not superhumanly strong (well he is!).Adamantium claws and bones explains why he can cut through doors and carry Hulk (or any massive amount of weight). But to break chains, punch people through walls or actually walk with Hulk on his shoulders all requires super human strength.
I preferred Wolverine in the early X-Men movies when he just had the healing factor and the claws/bones and wasnāt doing crazy feats of strength (I mean if he can punch someone through a wall if he even love tapped a normal person heād knock them into next week).
Problem is in each successive movie all the X-Men started doing more and more crazy things (eg Magnetos metal reach was very localized in 1st movie but by the 3rd he was flying the Golden Gate bridge which is miles long and in later movies tapping into the earths core which means the whole plastic prison thing was impossible and so on).
KGB
Iām not even convinced adamantium claws is enough to punch through several inches of steel - you still need to be able to generate the amount of physical force to achieve that and to do so with the ease that Wolverine does suggests a feat of strength beyond normal strength levels. Likewise even being able to penetrate Hulkās skin - unless you are strong enough the claws would just bounce off the same way bullets and even explosives do.
Yeah, the relationship between bone strength and overall strength isnāt zero, but the strength of your bones is almost never going to be a limiting factor for how strong you are.
You donāt see strongmen picking up beer kegs and shattering their arm or leg bones ā theyāre far, far more likely to tear connective tissue like tendons or ligaments, or strain or tear muscles.
Itās actually kind of unclear what benefit the adamantium skeleton gives Wolverine. Sure, his bones canāt be broken, but who cares ā his healing factor would knit them right back together anyway.
@KGB said:
@Pantera236 said:
@Borstock said:
Let me ask the people who donāt seem to care or think it mattersā¦When Steve, in civilian clothes, grabbed the helicopter on the roof and held it there with his own strength, that was awesome, right?
If Sam did the same thing, with no Vibranium suit on, would you still think it was awesome?
Sam should be Sam. Thereās a line from the trailer where Ross tells him heās no Steve Rogers and he replies, āYouāre right. Iām not.ā Based on Mackieās delivery, itās implied his meaning is āIām Sam Wilson. I can do things my way and still get the job done. I donāt have to be Steve.ā
Thatās the point of the film. Itās the entire point of the (neutered) movie. So, when he does stuff with the shield that makes no sense, yes, it matters.
So you went to a superhero movie expecting no superheroes? The point wasnāt so much he could do it literally with just his fists, it was that he didnāt need the supersoldier serum.
But that fact lessens the whole idea of who Cap is. In other words apparently the serum wasnāt needed, all Cap (or anyone apparently) had to do was train his **** off, get a Shield and he would have been Cap. That makes the serum a kind of McGuffin which definitely lessens things for me personally on Captain America.
KGB
I think you guys missed the 1st Cap movie. He was Cap before he got the serum. Sure no one took him seriously but itās his heart that makes him who he is. Only reason Steve even needed the serum was cause he was 102 soaking wet. His character didnāt change after the serum, same old Cap.
Want to hear the funny part?
This line isnāt in the movie.
@Pantera236 said:
@Borstock said:
Let me ask the people who donāt seem to care or think it mattersā¦When Steve, in civilian clothes, grabbed the helicopter on the roof and held it there with his own strength, that was awesome, right?
If Sam did the same thing, with no Vibranium suit on, would you still think it was awesome?
Sam should be Sam. Thereās a line from the trailer where Ross tells him heās no Steve Rogers and he replies, āYouāre right. Iām not.ā Based on Mackieās delivery, itās implied his meaning is āIām Sam Wilson. I can do things my way and still get the job done. I donāt have to be Steve.ā
Thatās the point of the film. Itās the entire point of the (neutered) movie. So, when he does stuff with the shield that makes no sense, yes, it matters.
So you went to a superhero movie expecting no superheroes? The point wasnāt so much he could do it literally with just his fists, it was that he didnāt need the supersoldier serum.
I see. So, what does the super soldier serum actually do in your mind? Because it sounds like ānot muchā.
As for superheroics, Iāve already said I loved the aerial combat scene. That was a scene where Sam shined, doing stuff no one else could really do, not at his level. Everything could be explained by Sam doing Sam things with an assist from the Wakandan tech suit. Steveās body is his tech suit.
You are allowed to make your own rules in movies. But once you make them, breaking them needs to make sense. Sam using the shield like Steve, while in civilian clothes, makes no sense based on their own rules. Now, I donāt know why Rhodey wouldnāt be able to use it just as effectively, or Yelena.
@Kross said:
@Borstock said:
Sam should be Sam. Thereās a line from the trailer where Ross tells him heās no Steve Rogers and he replies, āYouāre right. Iām not.āWant to hear the funny part?
This line isnāt in the movie.
The theme is.
Thatās also why I said it was in the trailer and not that it was in the movie.
Are you saying this because you think the shield is heavy? If so itās not. Black Widow picked it up just fine in AoU and Tony hands it to Cap just fine in civies in Endgame. And as far as the throwing of it with that kind of precision I mean it didnāt really make sense that Cap could do it either. Doesnāt happen because theyāre strong itās training. Oh and as far as what the supersoldier does in my head, like kgb said (dismissively) it is a MacGuffin. So many in the MCU have tried to recreate it but the one thing they were missing was Steveās heart/passion.
@Borstock said:
@Kross said:
@Borstock said:
Sam should be Sam. Thereās a line from the trailer where Ross tells him heās no Steve Rogers and he replies, āYouāre right. Iām not.āWant to hear the funny part?
This line isnāt in the movie.
The theme is.
Thatās also why I said it was in the trailer and not that it was in the movie.
Yup it was the entire theme of the movie. Sam proving he didnāt need to be Steve. Even Ross proving he is a changed man.
Just funny that they cut that line.
Iām saying it because one man can hold a helicopter to a building with his bare hands, can jump down from a 5 story building and not break every bone in his body, and punching bags go flying across the gym when he hits them.