Ah, it is difficult to be truly original in this game! 
I don’t think it will be high on the nerf list. It’s hard to make it as competitive as AWAY based teams and there is no one calling for a nerf to Vision.
I cannot imagine that anyone planned for Vision’s CDs to be 99 turns but no one bothered to do anything as the only reason it matters is if you’re using him with Kang. The kit still is garbage but at least he has this one use.
But but IP2 plans to rebalance every single character and iron out any bugs or weirdness as they go so I expect his CDs to be brought back to earth.
You’re probably right but I can imagine that it could have been deliberate. There’s not really a balancing problem or a lore problem with him being able to hold a state for an extended period of time. Maybe upping the CD turns was easier than recoding the ability to not use CDs at all?
Be careful about sharing your A-Teams in here! The Devs are probably tapping in looking for the next characters to nerf…
But for real, tho. 
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Or worst, putting them in PvE Sim CN… 
Welcome!
I imagine we all have that worry. However, I don’t think there are many A teams the devs can’t see stats on and certainly the case with the last team I mentioned it has some merit and is a fun break from the regular teams but it’s not a meta team by any stretch.
That said, I do think Hawkeye should have been maybe 5th on the nerf priority list and a few vocal complainants here may have been responsible for having him bumped up to top 2. He wasn’t a fair character as he was but I don’t think that troubled anyone outside the top 1% of PvP players who expected not to be hit by anyone outside their 1% club.
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2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Your latest fun team combination
Great idea. Just one thought. Arc Reactor fits on Riri, which would give you a stun. For me, Kaine’s red is slightly higher than her blue. Going to try out Shuri’s lab on Kaine to add a little damage, but still get the red AP bonus on matches. Green AP support on the horse to start the match with a team stun. Suppose you couldn’t use that team on the current Heroic though. Infinity War Spidey can also use the Arc Reactor if you wanted to maximize Horse’s yellow for AP production.
His nerf wasn’t due to anything said about him here, and it had nothing to do with the 1%ers.
It’s about usage.
More people used him more often than any of the characters you have in mind being above him on your “nerf priority list”.
There are characters that are stronger that lead to faster wins, but they’re not as accessible to the vast majority of players, so they don’t get played as much.
HE was consistent, easy to get, and allowed the player to punch up at much lower levels than other characters. So the vast majority of players used him. A lot.
That made him a priority to nerf. Not any elite club being vocal about him.
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Objection! Hearsay. Calls for Speculation.
I was going to say I distinctly remember S0kun’s post giving usage as a reason for Iron May and no mention of usage on Hawkeye, but on rereading the post I also found this snippet:
This batch also includes changes to two infamous heroes that many, many players have been requesting we review because they are far too toxic and dominant to the current metagame.
This seems to specifically point out user feedback as a prime reason for picking these 2, wouldn’t you agree?
Again, to reiterate Hawkeye was definitely broke and needed fixing, but more broke than Frankie or Sam? I don’t know how you judge it but I see and saw both of those a lot more in PvP than I saw Hawkeye. I did see Hawkeye though, he wasn’t totally absent. Slightly more prevalent than 1a5 Spidey, so err good job there, I guess.
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I feel like more nerf debating in this thread is off topic, but I also need to say that if I were in charge of a game and was going to nerf popular characters I would put spin on it that assigned at least some blame to the players who were upset about it.
This is not to say that some element of the decision to nerf Hawkeye wasn’t based on player complaints.
We often debate why things happen or don’t happen. We get some explanation but in a game like this, with many interrelated factors happening constantly, it’s rare that you can just point to one thing.
I do not think the word “toxic” applied to May or Hawkeye from a player perspective unless you really were getting that angry constantly that a Hawkeye team could slowly punch up against your 550 toons you may have spent much more money on. But the HE team was slow as molasses so they would be hit 5x when they were out. If there was actual anger it was among a few people vs the vast majority who saw them as useful tools, but also a slow team you pulled out when you were giving up on other boosted options who couldn’t reliably overcome oppressive teams like Samjuggs. Not your first choice but a useful one when you were tired of losing.
It is obviously weird they released May and Hawkeye as they did and left them so long. Neither created a true problem for players on defense but they definitely were good enough that many players could feasibly be totally happy with that team as a baseline for any hard nodes and not be concerned at all about spending more money with any urgency.
To me in their specific case the biggest issue is they were super easy to access for any player who could feel comfortable not bothering to spend on the game after getting them. So they had to go. Time will tell if that helps spending at all.
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Yep, happy for mods to split it off into another topic or delete or whatever they see fit.
Fair enough. I meant that the rebalance was clearly broken and we questioned it immediately.
As far as HE speed I can only speak around my experience and what others have said. I have 32 550s and a good number are duped 1-5s. I am firmly in that MMR and many of my tools are now worse. But the point is that an unboosted HE could previously easily beat basically any team I saw while my other options might have failed. But there’s no way it was as fast to hunt down purple and red matches as using better boosted toons I don’t have. I suppose I was punching up but I’m also stuck in 550 mmr with whales and vets who have played much harder for longer than I have.
My experience is that I got hit a lot more when using unboosted HE to slowly win than using boosted high level teams I have had access to. Obviously one way to address things would have been to reduce boost frequency but apparently altering the boost list is almost harder than passing constitutional amendments in the US.
Hmm, why do I have the feeling that the ‘broken’ 1HE got nerfed has something to do with low health pack usage, since clear time using him is not improved… And 1Spidey is also probably in that same vein…
Currently, using 1HE has the winfinite broken simply having supports/ starting board / board drop surrendering to RNG siding with AI…
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I know that health pack usage is a thing they partly blamed the OML nerf for but I think it’s more of a proxy for ability to win matches than anything. Almost no one is buying health packs, certainly not for cash. But you use them when you’re losing. Prenerf HE basically couldn’t lose so he, as I said, established that you didn’t really need anyone else other than going faster etc. But most players aren’t playing for speed anyway. If you think you can mostly do whatever you want with 2 toons then it reduces the urgency to build other ones dramatically.
At some point we’re just talking about semantics with descriptions like “slow.” Putting numbers here would be significantly more helpful and descriptive.
When you said Hawkeye pre nerf was “slow as molasses,” to me, that describes one of those old-school infinite teams that beats anything, but takes a ludicrous amount of time – on the order of 10+ minutes for a match. Hawkeye was never that, though. In my experience (and I do a LOT of retal wars), unboosted Hawkeye teams were beating teams of infinite level in, like, 1-2 minutes, max.
Two minutes is slower than the 30-second match times you can put up with some boosted characters. Is it significantly slower? Shouldn’t it be significantly slower? If it’s just a little slower, what incentive do you have to level up the boosted characters, or anybody else at all?
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Hawkeye got nerfed because the previous Devs broke him. We need to stop with this disingenuous notion that he wasn’t absolutely everywhere and punching up to a degree that forced the Devs to act because he effectively made new characters irrelevant thanks to how often he was boosted and how effective he was. He wasn’t designed to be that good. I also suspect that the Devs are way past the point of caring about health packs, else they wouldn’t have designed Frankencastle as they did.
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I’ve speculated that as well in other thread, that nerfing ‘broken’ 1HE is to make ‘crappy’ 5s seemingly better.
Well, at any rate, 1HE is less fun now, and sometimes you’ll need health pack because when the winfinite broke and the moment AI makes a move, it drains at least 1/3 of your health pool…
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Guys, come on. @bluewolf pointed out that it was off topic. I flagged my own post to try and rescue one of the few surviving positive threads. Start a new thread, here are some name ideas for the new thread:
“Hawkeye: remembered”
“Hawkeye: an obituary”
“The truth is out there: the infinite archer”
“Clint Barton 2025-2026 R. I. P.”
“Was He Slow? No.”
Don’t make me get flag y’all and get Mr Fandango involved a second time. 
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Damn that mr Fandango feels good
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