# Decks are not 40 cards (4x of each card) **URL:** \ **Category:** MtGPQ General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 17, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298 "2017-06-17T19:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![naphomci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@naphomci](https://forums.505go.com/u/naphomci)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/1 "2017-06-17T19:57:15Z")
So, there have been some people asking about this, but this is the set of cards I just got in training grounds with Saheeli: Opening 3: Shivan Reef Fleetwheel Cruiser Shivan Reef Next cards, in order: Shivan Reef Shivan Reef (if the old description of decks was true, this would be the last Shivan Reef I could see for the next 35 cards) Maulfist Doorbuster Maulfist Doorbuster Shivan Reef, number 5. So, can @Brigby tell us what the new deck make up is? ---
**Author:** ![Laeuftbeidir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/laeuftbeidir/32/3155_2.png) [@Laeuftbeidir](https://forums.505go.com/u/Laeuftbeidir)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/2 "2017-06-17T20:11:46Z")
The decks behave a bit weird since the last update imo. Today, I got three times 4 copies of the same card in the first half dozen turns. Not impossible with a 40 card deck, but the odds are.. Low. (no card draw mechanics (apart from shefet) involved) /E: actually, 5 times, including screenshots of the last 4 times -.- ---
**Author:** ![Thesee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/thesee/32/6848_2.png) [@Thesee](https://forums.505go.com/u/Thesee)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/3 "2017-06-17T21:32:07Z")
When some asked a few weeks ago, the official answer was that nothing had changed [https://forums.505go.com/discussion/64326/40-card-deck/p2](https://forums.505go.com/discussion/64326/40-card-deck/p2) But we have all noticed the strange behaviour of the draw mechanism and lots of us have faced situations that clearly indicate that the 40 card deck does not exist anymore or does not work as it did anymore Hi Everyone. I was able to get answers for the second round of questions I sent over to the developers. You can find them below: **What happens when you get to the end of your 40 card deck?** 40 new cards are generated in your library, as if you just started the game. **How does fetching the next X cards from your deck work if you go past the end of the deck?** It generates a new 40 card library, then fetches from it. So yes, anything that draws a specific card can draw infinite copies of said card. **What about destroying cards out of your deck (i.e. Gather the Pack?)** Again, it generates a new 40 card library, then destroys the specified cards. ---
**Author:** ![shteev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/shteev/32/7929_2.png) [@shteev](https://forums.505go.com/u/shteev)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/4 "2017-06-17T22:02:48Z")
Does it take three rounds of questions before they fix EVERY bug? Must be exhausting. ---
**Author:** ![Volrak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Volrak](https://forums.505go.com/u/Volrak)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/5 "2017-06-17T22:36:58Z")
> [@naphomci](#): > > So, there have been some people asking about this, but this is the set of cards I just got in training grounds with Saheeli: > Opening 3: > Shivan Reef > Fleetwheel Cruiser > Shivan Reef > Next cards, in order: > Shivan Reef > Shivan Reef (if the old description of decks was true, this would be the last Shivan Reef I could see for the next 35 cards) > Maulfist Doorbuster > Maulfist Doorbuster > Shivan Reef, number 5. > > So, can @Brigby tell us what the new deck make up is? It would have been great to see a battle log of this. E.g. there are ways to deplete the deck without cards going into your hand; with a battle log, this kind of thing could be ruled out. ---
**Author:** ![Thuran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Thuran](https://forums.505go.com/u/Thuran)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/6 "2017-06-17T23:32:28Z")
Had a game earlier today where i ended up with 5 Rishkar’s expertise before encountering a single cast out. Definetly not just 4 copies 😕 ---
**Author:** ![naphomci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@naphomci](https://forums.505go.com/u/naphomci)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/7 "2017-06-18T00:04:11Z")
> [@Volrak](#): > > > [@naphomci](#): > > > > So, there have been some people asking about this, but this is the set of cards I just got in training grounds with Saheeli: > > Opening 3: > > Shivan Reef > > Fleetwheel Cruiser > > Shivan Reef > > Next cards, in order: > > Shivan Reef > > Shivan Reef (if the old description of decks was true, this would be the last Shivan Reef I could see for the next 35 cards) > > Maulfist Doorbuster > > Maulfist Doorbuster > > Shivan Reef, number 5. > > > > So, can @Brigby tell us what the new deck make up is? > > It would have been great to see a battle log of this. E.g. there are ways to deplete the deck without cards going into your hand; with a battle log, this kind of thing could be ruled out. I forgot about the log. But I listed every card I drew. None manipulate the library. Nor did I activate any of Saheeli’s abilities ---
**Author:** ![shteev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/shteev/32/7929_2.png) [@shteev](https://forums.505go.com/u/shteev)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/8 "2017-06-18T03:36:13Z")
@Volrak ive got screenshots of the battlelog for the situation I posted in the other thread… i can put them somewhere if itll make any difference. ---
**Author:** ![Pcell777](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/pcell777/32/4323_2.png) [@Pcell777](https://forums.505go.com/u/Pcell777)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/9 "2017-06-18T03:45:28Z")
Honestly, as a relatively new player and not knowing about the 40 cards deck, I always have a feeling that the draw is completely random. ---
**Author:** ![Volrak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Volrak](https://forums.505go.com/u/Volrak)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/10 "2017-06-18T04:00:18Z")
> [@shteev](#): > > @Volrak ive got screenshots of the battlelog for the situation I posted in the other thread… i can put them somewhere if itll make any difference. If they’re handy I’d be curious to see them. One possibility of several is that it’s a bug in the behaviour of a card or ability which d3 might not yet be able to reproduce; pooling our knowledge about what the possible triggers might be could help to isolate it. Or, the deck size might just be changed without any communication, in which case the logs won’t do a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Sirchombli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/sirchombli/32/4909_2.png) [@Sirchombli](https://forums.505go.com/u/Sirchombli)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 6:52am UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/11 "2017-06-18T06:52:08Z")
I drew 5 copies of censor and 5 copies of forsake the unworldly before I got my second cast out. I’m beginning to think cycling has something to do with it. Only happens when I draw a million cards. I’ve never drawn more than 6 copies of a card without seeing the other cards in proportion. I’m logging all of my games to get some usable data. Something’s not right. ---
**Author:** ![shteev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/shteev/32/7929_2.png) [@shteev](https://forums.505go.com/u/shteev)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/12 "2017-06-18T14:05:35Z")
Ok here’s my Battle Log: > **[Google Drive: Sign-in](https://accounts.google.com/v3/signin/identifier?continue=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D0B4iDvhSEWxaranFsS0JISEJJSk0&dsh=S1864289833%3A1772129434373045&followup=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D0B4iDvhSEWxaranFsS0JISEJJSk0&ifkv=ASfE1-qph3KxF08i9G7b-1yplcdfHEtKCdjC_MRK1xeMpdsLDwqahKPFug5_yod0tVqH4Awbgc1GYQ&osid=1&passive=1209600&service=wise&flowName=GlifWebSignIn&flowEntry=ServiceLogin)** > > Access Google Drive with a Google account (for personal use) or Google Workspace account (for business use). Hieroglyphic Illumination is the first card I drew 5 of, I believe. [edit] oops, no, this must have been another game; here, I drew a 5th copy of Dissenter’s Deliverance. ---
**Author:** ![shteev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/shteev/32/7929_2.png) [@shteev](https://forums.505go.com/u/shteev)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/13 "2017-06-18T14:12:46Z")
> [@Sirchombli](#): > > I drew 5 copies of censor and 5 copies of forsake the unworldly before I got my second cast out. I’m beginning to think cycling has something to do with it. Only happens when I draw a million cards. I’ve never drawn more than 6 copies of a card without seeing the other cards in proportion. I’m logging all of my games to get some usable data. Something’s not right. I very much don’t think it’s cycling; I remember one time drawing 5 Pigs in my first 8 cards, playing Saheeli before AKH was released. Now that you’ve mentioned cycling, tho, I bet Brigby will turn up and say ‘Oh, yeah, it’s cycling’, because they do that here. > [@Volrak](#): > > One possibility of several is that it’s a bug in the behaviour of a card or ability which d3 might not yet be able to reproduce Yes. That is one possibility. I can think of a few more. ---
**Author:** ![UweTellkampf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/uwetellkampf/32/3963_2.png) [@UweTellkampf](https://forums.505go.com/u/UweTellkampf)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/14 "2017-06-18T15:06:52Z")
I too seem to be getting 40+Decks, especially with Saheeli (5 Boomships in round 4) ---
**Author:** ![naphomci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@naphomci](https://forums.505go.com/u/naphomci)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/15 "2017-06-18T17:55:26Z")
If you look at my original post, it is not cycling. None of the cards I listed cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Volrak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Volrak](https://forums.505go.com/u/Volrak)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/16 "2017-06-19T11:18:54Z")
> [@shteev](#): > > Ok here’s my Battle Log: > > [https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4iDvhSEWxaranFsS0JISEJJSk0](https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4iDvhSEWxaranFsS0JISEJJSk0) > > Hieroglyphic Illumination is the first card I drew 5 of, I believe. [edit] oops, no, this must have been another game; here, I drew a 5th copy of Dissenter’s Deliverance. If I counted right, your first 40 cards were: | Censor | x3 | | --- | --- | | Displacement Wave | x3 | | Dissenter’s Deliverance | **x5** | | Floodwaters | **x5** | | Hieroglyphic Illumination | x4 | | Kessig Prowler | x3 | | New Perspectives | x4 | | Shefet Monitor | x3 | | Sphinx’s Tutelage | **x5** | | Vizier of Tumbling Sands | **x5** | So it looks like more than just one card out of place. If someone feels bored, a thing to do would be to log 60 draws and see whether there are exactly x6 of each card. ---
**Author:** ![Laeuftbeidir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/laeuftbeidir/32/3155_2.png) [@Laeuftbeidir](https://forums.505go.com/u/Laeuftbeidir)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/17 "2017-06-19T21:08:30Z")
@Volrak I felt bored a bit and tried it with a looping deck in RatC (Tezzeret..) I am still convinced something is wrong with the decks ..well, but this time the data wants me to take off the tinfoil hat. I drew 44 cards, 4 of each in the first 40 + 4 single ones after it. No Cycling involved (apart from Shefet Monitor), card draw only through Alha..whatever..archive + Retreat to Coralheim + I did not use Kioras second ability ---
**Author:** ![Brigby](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/brigby/32/6367_2.png) [@Brigby](https://forums.505go.com/u/Brigby)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/18 "2017-06-19T23:10:01Z")
@naphomci Since there seems to be differing deck behaviors with various players’ attempts, I’ve relayed this question to the developers. I’ll inform the community of their response when I hear back from them. ---
**Author:** ![Captsquee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/captsquee/32/1219_2.png) [@Captsquee](https://forums.505go.com/u/Captsquee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/19 "2017-06-20T09:12:59Z")
This is a thought but needs improved upon. Paper allows 60 card decks for competition. Since we don’t include the usual 20 mana. 6 pulls of the same card and you can’t draw it anymore? Its a thought. I have a sweet cycling deck but endless draws are crazy. They nerfed baral and then gave us cycling. The dumbed down a card to give us decks that do worse things and then add a planeswalker to help it further lol. New perspectives is a nuclear bomb. Drake haven sphinx tutelage shadowsstorm vizier and curator of mysteries. I’m not adding in the other color combos. The sad part is you can do insane things with a handful of cheap cards. Draw decks have to be limited. ---
**Author:** ![Brigby](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/brigby/32/6367_2.png) [@Brigby](https://forums.505go.com/u/Brigby)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298/20 "2017-06-21T23:35:14Z")
Hi Everyone. I just wanted to stop by to give a quick update. I relayed this information to the developers, and they said it’s possible the original deck issue with Saheeli Rai may not be fixed. They will investigate further. [Next page](https://forums.505go.com/t/decks-are-not-40-cards-4x-of-each-card/37298.md?page=2)