End-Game "Balance"

Magic: The Gathering - Puzzle Quest MtGPQ General Discussion
1

Splitting this off from the other thread to keep it on-topic

You’d think it was insane if WOTC balanced paper MTG for casual players but not for competitive players, wouldn’t you?

I was trying to put my thumb on why this didn’t seem quite right, or why it’s an apples-and-oranges comparison. I realized that it’s because PQ has never been structured or intended to be “balanced” the way that paper considers balance.

Paper MTG bans/rebalances when an archetype either wins too often or stifles exploratory gameplay (or both). If a deck type starts winning at a 60-65% clip or more, that’s when calls for bans/rebalancing take place, so that the meta isn’t so dominant. But that still means the dominant deck loses ~1/3 of the time, and the general intention of rebalancing is that playing that same deck type would lose more.

To some degree this game does the opposite - it’s so easy to generally win that the incentive structure is built around winning often, and progression through the game is built to win more, not just face harder opponents. We have a thread here celebrating 20 people in a coalition all going perfect, and the scoreboard implies many many others that were as well. There is skill at work, but when that many people can win so often, it’s clear that this game isn’t about being “balanced”, but winning.

This seems reductionist, but this game is not paper MTG, it’s Candy Crush with an MTG skin. The incentives at work here aren’t to continue challenging players throughout the difficulty curve - they’re to build up your card base so that winning is easier/faster. There’s a sense that this game should be “beatable” like most other video games, not “balanced” with varying deck types countering others like paper MTG.

I’ve been on record that there should be more losing at the top-end of the game, and there are ways for that to happen outside of the cards themselves. To name a few: bring back Smart Greg’s gem-matching, don’t have Greg just prioritize creatures, randomize who plays first, track losses when your deck loses in Greg’s hands, and likely many others. I do think there is a place for nerfing cards when there is an outsized impact on the game. But without those other structural/incentive changes, calling for “balance” by simply nerfing/not printing individual cards only makes the game more grindy.

2

I want to bring up the topic of the balance PW. Especially — Grist.

The thing is, Grist doesn’t seem to have any balance. It always starts with Ghalta, Stampede and Rakdos, while also carrying the card Tempt the Discovery, and then pulls in the MT card as well.
In the end, this creates an infinite loop:
• Ability 1 — returns Ghalta or Rakdos to the battlefield
• then with the card it pulls TtD again, and again, and again

Try defeating Grist yourself with that kind of deck — it wipes you out in just 1–2 turns.
So much time has passed, and yet the balance issue still hasn’t been fixed at all.

I get the impression that Grist is just outright “broken” in PW and far stronger than all the others combined.
In coalition events and in PvP I always run into Grist, and Grist always uses the same unchanged deck:
• Ghalta
• Rakdos
• Tempt the Discovery
• MT
• a few creature removal cards

No variation at all. With this setup, Grist wins far more often than any other PWs. Honestly, I can’t imagine how to calm down that damn Grist.

Most other PWs can be dealt with and feel balanced, but Grist is the only one that has no balance — just insane creature ramp and mass conversion within 1–2 turns.

Try playing with this PW and test it yourself — you’ll see that the most problematic PW is Grist, simply because of his cheap ability. He really reminds me of World Breaker.
When will they finally review the balance of this PW?

If MTG Arena had the same kind of balance issues as Grist, cards like this would start getting banned — or whatever the proper term is — to level out the balance and make the game fair.
But here it looks completely different, as if they don’t even care how Grist works, and I can literally see the balance being broken.

In the past, people complained about Ghalta being unbalanced — and that was fixed. So how much longer will it take before they finally fix the problem with Grist?

3

Grist might be strong but their are better Planeswalkers like Aminatou, Lord Windgrace, and Dack Fayden so there is no need to nerf Grist. Their are enough options to play against Grist. Just use enough removal or cards that negate ETB (enter the battlefield) effects.

4

I faced zero Grist decks in the Coalition Event this weekend so Grist is surely not dominating the meta. Their is also a great Planeswalker which almost negates all Grist’s abilities namely Kaya, Orzhov Usurper.

5

Grist doesn’t need to get nerfed. Yeah he’s strong but not as strong as the Golden Wish/Mystic Teachings combos I’m seeing in every 4th or 5th battle that basically replicate the old Omniscience loop combo style.

6

Yes Grist is strong and it’s annoying when I’m trying to master cards, but if I really wanted to beat him, both Sarkhan Unbroken and Tamiyo are strong enough to fight back. The real problem is just like in Commander. Green is too strong.