Keyword: Bounce

[starfall]

The release of Fblthp seems like a good time to revisit this discussion:

https://forums.505go.com/discussion/comment/874231/p1

@starfall

Fixing “summon” and “cast” as keywords was a great idea, and they have been implemented successfully, I think (apart from a few kinks which are being ironed out).

Keywords perform a number of different useful functions: they allow players to quickly and easily understand complex new cards which may include old abilities; to perfectly understand new cards which look like old ones (a more common problem than you’d think!): they set in stone the functionality of older cards which sometimes have a habit of flipflopping as a result of ongoing development; and they even allow some small measure of code re-use, which, god knows, we need right now as the game slows to glacial speeds.

The ‘bounce’ effect is something which I feel could use a keyword. I’ve recently noticed that (at some point) Teferi’s first ability has been changed so that it won’t work if an opponent has 6 cards in hand. This brings it in line with older bounce effects like Harbinger of the Tides and Disperse, although, the 5 card limit is specified on these cards, and not on Teferi. In addition, some newer bounce effects (like Exclusion Mage) still hold to the way the mechanic has worked up until recently, where a creature will be destroyed if it cannot be returned to hand.

Of course, we don’t want the game to drown under new keywords, so they need to be implemented liberally, but the ‘bounce’ effect is a common one in MTG and MTGPQ so I think it merits a keyword.

Additionally: ‘bounce’, whilst it is a frequently used informal term in paper MTG, isn’t particularly ‘magical’ sounding, so if anyone has a better idea for what to name the keyword, I’m all ears

Fblthp’s ability 1 bounce effect will destroy creatures if Greg has 6 cards in hand, whereas Teferi’s first ability is unable to activate. These kind of discrepancies are extremely annoying!

[Tremayne]

I like your perseverance @starfall and I support your efforts. My request to D3/octagon is: see my signature!

[starfall]

Oh, hello! I just found this in the 3.7 bug fixes!

Brigby

Bug FixesThe opponent’s Creature is now properly destroyed when Callous Dismissal is cast while the opponent has a full hand.

Presumably this means that all bounce effects should destroy unless specified otherwise.

While it seems unlikely that we’ll get official conformation of this, or, indeed, the keyword that would make all of our lives so much easier, this does mean that further bounce/non-bounce issues posted in the bugs forums can no longer be fobbed off with a “working as intended”.

Thread bookmarked. I’m off to post Teferi’s 1st ability as a bug.

[starfall]

As a matter of interest, has anyone tested whether there’s a discrepancy between the way Lashweed Lurker and Expel from Orazca work on tokens recently?

[Zzyzzx]

No, but that’s something worth testing the next time Role Reversal “rolls” around.
I can say that “Totally Lost” (bounce to library) allows me to target token stacks and is a fantastic utility spell because when Greg’s field is empty and unlike many other support removals, it’ll bounce lands.

“Gone Missing”, however, is presumably using the same mechanic, but does not allow me to target tokens.
Note: I haven’t run “Gone Missing” in a very long time because it did not allow tokens to be the target.

[starfall]

@Zzyzzx

I can say that “Totally Lost” (bounce to library) allows me to target token stacks and is a fantastic utility spell because when Greg’s field is empty and unlike many other support removals, it’ll bounce lands.

Careful. Totally Lost is bugged atm, so that if Greg controls no creatures or supports it’ll bounce one of your supports.

[Zzyzzx]

I did not know that…yeah careful I shall be.
Thank you.

I can also confirm that Lashwood Lurker does not allow targeting of token stacks, in this case it’s a stack of 3 Eldrazi Scions in Emrakul’s Corruption.