# Missing insects **URL:** \ **Category:** MtGPQ General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726 "2019-03-08T21:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tremayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/tremayne/32/8222_2.png) [@Tremayne](https://forums.505go.com/u/Tremayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/1 "2019-03-08T21:18:18Z")
due to forum rules I must create a new thread, sigh! this is a follow up on this thread [https://forums.505go.com/discussion/75990/grn-hatchery-spider-who-generates-insect-tokens/p1](https://forums.505go.com/discussion/75990/grn-hatchery-spider-who-generates-insect-tokens/p1) I was particularly looking for insect tokens in Ravnica Alliance to boost Hatchery spider, but it seems to be for another set. Or am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Mburn7](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/mburn7/32/8216_2.png) [@Mburn7](https://forums.505go.com/u/Mburn7)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/2 "2019-03-08T21:23:11Z")
> [@Tremayne](#): > > due to forum rules I must create a new thread, sigh! > > this is a follow up on this thread [https://forums.505go.com/discussion/75990/grn-hatchery-spider-who-generates-insect-tokens/p1](https://forums.505go.com/discussion/75990/grn-hatchery-spider-who-generates-insect-tokens/p1) > > I was particularly looking for insect tokens in Ravnica Alliance to boost Hatchery spider, but it seems to be for another set. Or am I mistaken? There are no insects in RNA. Once again, Oktagon can’t invent new cards in a set that do certain things, and since Insects are pretty much only for Golgari it makes sense that there aren’t any in RNA. War of the Spark may have some, but I wouldn’t be too hopeful for it. There’s a good chance that Insect Leader ends up about as useful as Elf Leader for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Avahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f475e1/32.png) [@Avahad](https://forums.505go.com/u/Avahad)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/3 "2019-03-08T21:25:57Z")
And now we have an ooze leader coming too… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tremayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/tremayne/32/8222_2.png) [@Tremayne](https://forums.505go.com/u/Tremayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/4 "2019-03-08T21:26:43Z")
Then I can’t understand the resistance against my complaint regarding Hatchery Spider, which several players responded in my original post. HS is nowhere near mythic level and I would reiterate my complaint that D3/Octagon design cards like that. should have been a tinykitty rare and nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Tremayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/tremayne/32/8222_2.png) [@Tremayne](https://forums.505go.com/u/Tremayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/5 "2019-03-08T21:28:21Z")
Elf leader has gotten better support with the elf soldier token ---
**Author:** ![Brakkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/brakkis/32/2705_2.png) [@Brakkis](https://forums.505go.com/u/Brakkis)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/6 "2019-03-08T21:57:59Z")
> [@Tremayne](#): > > Elf leader has gotten better support with the elf soldier token Those Vigilant Elf Knights are arguably better than Thorn Leiutenant ---
**Author:** ![wereotter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/wereotter/32/6220_2.png) [@wereotter](https://forums.505go.com/u/wereotter)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/7 "2019-03-08T22:02:34Z")
I would anticipate, still, that you’re more likely to see the insect leader become more interesting in legacy if/when they do the divine vs. demonic duel deck. The latest Innistrad block had a handful of cards that made insect tokens, but none of them were put into PQ. They could be added in a supplementary product later. ---
**Author:** ![Tremayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/tremayne/32/8222_2.png) [@Tremayne](https://forums.505go.com/u/Tremayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/8 "2019-03-08T22:05:39Z")
> [@Brakkis](#): > > > [@Tremayne](#): > > > > Elf leader has gotten better support with the elf soldier token > > Those Vigilant Elf Knights are arguably better than Thorn Leiutenant Granted but at least the elf token exists now in an accessible manner. ---
**Author:** ![BATMAN1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@BATMAN1](https://forums.505go.com/u/BATMAN1)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/9 "2019-03-08T22:06:44Z")
With izonai the spider becomes a 18/30. It sucks you need two mythics to get there but HS and insects are at the end of a long list of problems. ---
**Author:** ![Tremayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/tremayne/32/8222_2.png) [@Tremayne](https://forums.505go.com/u/Tremayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/10 "2019-03-08T22:09:14Z")
> [@wereotter](#): > > I would anticipate, still, that you’re more likely to see the insect leader become more interesting in legacy if/when they do the divine vs. demonic duel deck. The latest Innistrad block had a handful of cards that made insect tokens, but none of them were put into PQ. They could be added in a supplementary product later. You might be right, but what would you favour @wereotter? Cards that maybe sometime down the line will become useful, possibly or would you rather have a card that was actually playable with the rest of a set? I have stated my position, I want cards that are playable now over cards that are totally overpowered next year or the year after. ---
**Author:** ![Tremayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/tremayne/32/8222_2.png) [@Tremayne](https://forums.505go.com/u/Tremayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/11 "2019-03-08T22:14:30Z")
> [@BATMAN1](#): > > With izonai the spider becomes a 18/30. It sucks you need two mythics to get there but HS and insects are at the end of a long list of problems. Granted, but I still think that there should have been an alternative, even if D3 can’t make up stuff as stated by Mburn7. Or HS should have been a rare. If no one complaints about this the problem will reoccur. ---
**Author:** ![BATMAN1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@BATMAN1](https://forums.505go.com/u/BATMAN1)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/12 "2019-03-08T22:14:50Z")
Izoni makes HS playable. Not a card I wanna play but playable based around the whole undergrowth gimmick. ---
**Author:** ![wereotter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/wereotter/32/6220_2.png) [@wereotter](https://forums.505go.com/u/wereotter)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/13 "2019-03-08T22:27:33Z")
> [@Tremayne](#): > > > [@wereotter](#): > > > > I would anticipate, still, that you’re more likely to see the insect leader become more interesting in legacy if/when they do the divine vs. demonic duel deck. The latest Innistrad block had a handful of cards that made insect tokens, but none of them were put into PQ. They could be added in a supplementary product later. > > You might be right, but what would you favour @wereotter? Cards that maybe sometime down the line will become useful, possibly or would you rather have a card that was actually playable with the rest of a set? > > I have stated my position, I want cards that are playable now over cards that are totally overpowered next year or the year after. oh I 100% would prefer that mythic rare cards are good either when they’re released or shortly thereafter. I also would be okay with mythics that interact well with legacy strategies to shake up that format even if the card doesn’t have the support it needs in standard. The problem with Hatchery Spider is that leader is a mechanic unique to Puzzle Quest, so if they want to keep that being a thing, they should find a way to insert the tokens into cards where appropriate, possibly by replacing the tokens produced by certain cards to make them into tokens usable by the leader, or by replacing what certain cards do entirely to just make them produce tokens. ---
**Author:** ![Laeuftbeidir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex023/user_avatar/forums.505go.com/laeuftbeidir/32/3155_2.png) [@Laeuftbeidir](https://forums.505go.com/u/Laeuftbeidir)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.505go.com/t/missing-insects/48726/14 "2019-03-08T22:40:00Z")
I like the spider and even use it competitively sometimes when the secondaries make it relevant. Got a nice white green and white black deck with it, where it easily grows in the sixties. It’s a solid mythic that has the same problem as other cards - there are better alternatives.