Perspective of a new player... kind of... (updated 1)

Marvel Puzzle Quest MPQ General Discussion
1

I am not a new player by any means, I have been playing for close to 500 days now.

However, when I got my new tablet, I decided that instead of linking to my Facebook account, I would just start a new alternate account. There were a few reasons for this, but the main ones were:

  • (1) FB syncing was being a tiny-kitty at the time, and
    (2) I wanted to recapture the nostalgia of playing with IM35, BW, Storm, etc. (all long gone from my roster)
    (3) Once I wipe my main acct of all of the characters/health packs, I can still play.
    (4) I wanted to see what a brand new player sees

But what I have found is most disturbing. This is game is not as friendly to new players as many here seem to believe. MMR and Scaling are still tiny-kittied for the players just as much for vets.

TRAINING/TUTORIAL

Training is still the same minimal, “match this tile, look at this tile, push this button for attacks, now GO!” mindset that it was at game launch. Nothing has been improved to give the new player a better understanding of the game or how to truly engage it.
–Team ups are never explained. They just appear.
–Alliances are never explained, they just appear and you are encouraged to join one for increased bonuses/rewards. But it is never explained that placement rewards get better with Alliances, that Team-Ups can be sent and received from Alliance members.
–Boosts are never explained. New players get them, but to use them, they have to figure it out on their own.

ROSTER SLOTS

[spoiler]Since I already knew that in early stages that HP should only be spent on Roster Slots and ISO should only be used to level characters up, I had a advantage that most new players do not. The Roster Slot bundles have probably pushed more new players away from the game than they have kept. Once a player reaches a wall, and I would say that wall comes pretty fast with this game, I hit it in about 8 days, they have a choice to make, and how many do you think are staying around? Considering most do not know how to earn free HP by being in an Alliance and by playing hard at PVP, I would say most walk.

You have to buy roster slots in groups of 3, and at an increasing price per set. The next set of 3 for my alt is 500HP.
Considering that by the time you get to 16 Roster Slots, that all of the prologue free HP is already earned, and that daily resupply doesn’t drop nearly enough HP for new users, I have no choice but to be in an alliance (which is fine, I like people… well… most people) to earn HP. So my alt acct is in a top 500 Alliance. That nets 25HP per event. My brackets are with other people of my same roster strength, so I have a good chance at top 50 which nets me another 50HP. So at 75HP per event, I would need to place top 50 in 7 events to purchase 3 Roster Slots. Meanwhile, if I do place top 50 in all 7 events, that is 7 ADDITIONAL covers that I need Roster Slots for. And the price goes up from there I am sure. And in the time it takes to win 7 events, how many of the covers that I was trying to recruit have expired?

So the system they set up creates a wall for new players. Either pay up real world money to recruit your heros, or delete/sell off the hero’s you have already recruited to recruit the new ones you want more. If the Devs TRULY want roster diversity, and that is their intention for the game, in the words of BrotherBoy (Sordid Lives): “It ain’t a workin!”

In the first 14 days of game play, you get A LOT of characters thrown at you. Way more characters than you can possible afford to open Roster Slots for, only using the HP gained through the Prologue (Story Mode for newbies) and through daily resupply.

In my first week, I got the usual’s:
icon_ironman.png
icon_storm.png
icon_blackwidow.png
icon_bullseye_old.png
icon_yelena.png
icon_venom.png
icon_juggernaut.png
.

Then the 2* & 3*'s started coming: (where you see duplicate, i got both 2 & 3*)
icon_hulk.png
icon_ares.png
icon_thor.png
icon_wolverine.png
icon_wolverine.png
icon_daken.png
icon_daken.png
icon_magneto.png
icon_ironfist.png
icon_ms_marvel.png
icon_deadpool.png
icon_storm.png
icon_blackwidow.png
icon_doctordoom.png

Then I won icon_bullseye.png
& icon_groot.png
in PVP. That’s 23 new characters in total in 14 days.

Full Roster:
icon_thor.png
2* (4-1-2, level 45)
icon_bullseye.png
3* (1-0-1, level 43)
icon_daken.png
3* (0-0-1, level 40)
icon_deadpool.png
(0-0-1, level 40)
icon_ironfist.png
(0-0-1, level 40)
icon_groot.png
(1-0-0, level 40)
icon_hulk.png
(1-0-0, level 40)
icon_wolverine.png
3* Patch (1-0-0, level 40)
icon_ironman.png
IM35 (2-4-5, level 31)
icon_storm.png
2* (1-1-2, level 25)
icon_storm.png
1* (4-4-5, level 23)
icon_blackwidow.png
MBW (3-5, level 22)
icon_magneto.png
2* (0-3-0, level 21)
icon_ms_marvel.png
2* (1-2-1, level 18)
icon_blackwidow.png
2* (0-1-2, level 17)
icon_bullseye_old.png
2* (0-2-0, level 15)

Had I not known ahead of time to hoard HP like it was real gold, I would have never been able to get the 16 roster slots to cover the strongest of them. So needless to say, I have had to say goodbye to 7 characters because I cannot buy slots individually anymore. (Granted, Juggs, Venom, & Hawkeye will not be missed, but 2* Daken, Doom, Ares, & 2* Wolvie will be)[/spoiler]
PVP MMR

Top useful characters at this moment to use in PVP are 2* Thor (4-1-2) at level 45, IM35 (2-4-5) at level 31, or Hulk (1-0-0) at level 40, or MBW (3-5 by choice) at level 22. Those are the best characters I have in PVP. So why is a brand new account being subjected to maxed 2* teams out of the gate (after seed teams). I will occasionally get a maxed 1* line up with loaner, but even that is beyond what should be matched with such an under-leveled brand new account. So this is not only a problem for long time players, but for brand new players as well.

There are many other things that I want to touch on from the perspective of what new player must go through. But I am at work and will have to add to this later.

Edit1: added to Roster Slots.

2

Is a brand new account supposed to playing PvP right out of the gate? Prologue is called “prologue” for a reason. When I started out, I didn’t go anywhere near PvP until I had usable 2s.

3

Thanks for the research OP.

What I would be very curious to see is what sort of scaling your 1* roster is getting in pve events (since that’s the thing that veterans seem to complain about most of all). Is a level 94, 2* roster the sweet spot of pve? or do 1*s get even easier scaling (not even counting the baby brackets).

Simonsez: What is “supposed to”? It’s clear that newbies won’t be able to excel at pvp, but it seems to me that they should start playing pvp as soon as they can reliably hit 200 or more points (200 will get them 2*s, which will get them up to 300 and 400, earning tokens and HP respectively). That’ s a pretty important source of resources ever 2.5 days.

4

No argument there, but I don’t think having a roster of characters at lv20 is the point at which you can or should be scoring 200 in PvP. Maybe I was unusually patient, I don’t know. Were you ever playing PvP with a lv20 formation?

5

If they weren’t meant to play, why give the option? PVP and PVE are the way to progress your roster in the game. With the roster posted above, I can hit 300-350.

I don’t know and that is a good question. I have been playing just the opening node and then letting it sit for the iso at the end of the events. I will try to play through one and document what levels I am seeing.

6

Realistically, though, how long do you think new players keep their 1*? I started a mobile roster 117 days ago.

Currently have 31 characters, and the only 1* is IM35. Why? Because the game threw 2* and 3* tokens at me. I haven’t kept all of the 3* I’ve gotten, but in those 117 days, I’ve gotten four covers for GSBW, four covers for Hulk, four covers for Punisher, four covers for LCap, three covers for Doom, three covers for Groot, three covers for Quicksilver, three covers for Kamala Khan, four covers for Loki, three covers for Iron Fist, three covers for Colossus, and a handful of others at 2 covers.

I mean, I don’t think my mobile roster had multiple 1* for very long before I started playing PVE. I can’t get more than a couple of nodes into any given sub on mobile because I don’t have the depth to be able to tackle the harder nodes (harder defined as 60+; I only have three 2* at 94 and one 13-cover who’s getting trained up that way). But if other “new” accounts have the same sort of token pulls that I got early with my secondary account, I don’t know how many 1* they’re realistically keeping in the first place.

7

Thanks for pointing out my lack of clarity. By “play”, I meant play with any reasonable hope of being at all competitive. No reason why they shouldn’t hit up the seeds for some free ISO

8

I did the same thing a while back, but I basically gave up when the first roster slot bundle hit. It was hard enough managing a 2nd account, but when you hit a point where you have to get HP from somewhere, and it’s not readily available, that was enough for me to drop the project.

9

I thought demiurge lowered the price of the first 25 or so roster slots? does that not make a difference? Or have they also upped the rate at which 1* players can get covers?

As for how long one can keep a 1* roster, I have no idea. it’s been months since I used a 1* for anything but bop and ddq. What I want to know is this:

The veteran consensus seems to be that level 94 rosters have a decided advantage over level 4* rosters in pve (I’m not convinced of this, but it does seem to be the consensus).

Do level 50 1* rosters have an equal advantage over level 94 rosters?

I am dubious. I tend to think that most of the people who have the worst scaling problems are the people who had a couple of very good 4s pre-nerf (so basically thorverine) . Those two characters could dominate pve by themselves without much trouble before March. But post nerf, those same players have just a couple of decent 4s, but pve scaling set for a deep, powerful 4* roster. It’s the analogous problem to having a 2*/94 roster with just 1 or 2 3*s at 166. Such players find that almost all of their roster is useless on pve deadly nodes and can struggle to compete in pve.

That is my own personal speculation and entirely unsupported by anything beyond anecdote. But I don’t remember seeing as many super whales like colog (who have all or almost all of the 4*s maxed) complaining about scaling. There are so many subjective things about any individual’s experience with this game that I think it’s important to keep up a constructuve dialogue between vets and newbies and transitioners. Otherwise we all have no idea how the game is treating the total universe of players.

10

Yeah, but I’m persistent with an office job. icon_lol.gif

11

ROSTER SLOTS:
You have to buy roster slots in groups of 3, and at an increasing price per set. The next set of 3 for my alt is 500HP.
Considering that all the prologue free HP is already earned, and that daily resupply doesn’t drop nearly enough HP for new users, I have no choice but to be in an alliance (which is fine, I like people… well… most people) to earn HP. So my alt acct is in a top 500 Alliance. That nets 25HP per event. My brackets are with other people of my same roster strength, so I have a good chance at top 50 which nets me another 50HP. So at 75HP per event, I would need to place top 50 in 7 events to purchase 3 Roster Slots. Meanwhile, if I do place top 50 in all 7 events, that is 7 **ADDITIONAL **covers that I need Roster Slots for. And the price goes up from there I am sure. And in the time it takes to win 7 events, how many of the covers that I was trying to recruit have expired?

So the system they set up creates a wall for new players. Either pay up real world money to recruit your heros, or delete/sell off the hero’s you have already recruited to recruit the new ones you want more. If the Devs TRULY want roster diversity, and that is their intention for the game, in the words of BrotherBoy (Sordid Lives): “It ain’t a workin!”

PVE Scaling:
That is an interesting question. I have just played the 1st node of the main. I see 3 bots that are level 19. I will play further in and see what it gives me. And just where I hit the wall of futile resistance.

12

I don’t find the early roster slot crush terribly offensive.

It’s definitely true that early players will get more covers than they can handle. But there is basically no down side to buying roster slots to solve that problem. Even if players save the wrong characters, they roster slots are as close as this game comes to a durable good, so the HP isn’t wasted. Compared to dropping more HP on less useful token packs, roster slots are definitely the way to go. So while the game mechanism does feel a little bit grubby (as do all freemium games), it’s one of the less offensive implementations of monetization in the game (health packs, token packs, etc). And games have to make money to sustain themselves on some fashion.

There are, however, 2 caveats to this: (1) the roster slot bundling is a blatant attempt to force real money purchases. There is no justification for it except to jump the price of roster expansion just as players start to collect desirable covers, and (2) the infinitely increasing roster slot prices are extremely player unfriendly for verteran when combined with the very fast (and apparently accelerating) character release rate.

13

I do find it offensive. How many people at 8 days into a game are going to spend Real Money? I’m thinking not many. I understand the need for D3 to make money, but they are going about it all the wrong way. Trust me, I market and sell 400% APR loans all day long, so when I say they are going about this all the wrong way, they are. They could be making much more money from making the player-base happy first, and a customer cash source last.

I give away free stuff to both customers and strangers alike to draw business in. I am ALL personality. And what it gets me is people who WANT to come see me, and they don’t mind the exorbitant rate that my company charges becasue they like me, the entertainment that I provide. I do everything I can to make them smile, laugh, and when I do give aways, I make sure they are getting something useful and that they will appreciate.

I honestly think (And please no one scream at me for this) that if you are going to group roster slots, it should be on the back end. And at a discount to those who are doing exactly as you state your intentions are, which is to diversify rosters. I am at 50 spots in my main. If I could buy a bundle of 3 slots for say 1600, I would totally purchase HP for that. I am hooked, obviously, I have been here for a long time.

14

Thank you for this. I got new mobile device. Considering logging in. I think I start new. Much appreciated

15

The reason why the purchases feels like a ripoff is because mechanism like MMR/scaling automatically negates any gain you make. If I’m playing a typical Korean money grab game, so say I start with 3 3* at level 1, and spent $50 and got my characters to 4 4* at level 20. Now I know there’s still a 5* and 6* tier and I’ll still get curbstomped by the guys with more money/playtime, but I can make a very safe assumption that 4X4* level 20s is going to get me progress further than 3X3* level 1s. It might not be as much as I was hoping but I know my ranking in PvP events will go up even if it’s from #1000000 to #430152, and instead of losing to stage 7-2 on normal I might be able to get stage 3-6 on hard. We can argue whether any of this is worth $50 but I know my position has absolutely improved. In MPQ, we do not know that. You level up some characters and then you see all your enemies instantly catch up in levels in the next PvE event. In PvP you see all your opposition instantly become harder. Are you really doing better than what you would’ve done without spending $50? Maybe, but you just have no way to tell, and it is quite possible you’re not doing any better than before.

16

I would be interested to know how many days in the average player spends money (if they are going to spend money at all). I am sure that it is AFTER the game makes you choose between spending real cash or selling 2*/3* covers.

And I will definitely agree that the game doesn’t do a great job of communicating the relative value of various goods to new players. But at least with the roster crush, players are being incentivized to buy something that will actually improve their game experience. There is basically no reason not to have a decently-large roster in this game (at 50+ slots, the price starts to get prohibitive, but 20-40 slots is definitely a good thing). How many threads are there on this forum of vets given advice to 1* players? How many of those threads start off by saying: “save your HP for roster slots only!”? I know that’s the first piece of advice I always give. A new player might be tempted to buy health packs or cover packs, or single covers or, worst of all, iso. At least if they decide to buy roster slots they will generally be better off for it.

17

I remember being terrified to play PvP when I first started playing (Sentry was the new character). The game doesn’t explain what PvP or PvE. So I waited until I completely finished the prologue then played PvE cause it seemed comparable to the prologue. I didn’t start playing PvP until I had a lvl 50 2* Wolv n Daken cause their self healing allowed me to play more. At the time I didn’t know u could play “injured,” I thought u needed full health!

I will say what I see nowadays with my friends who recently joined is that they are not completing the prologue. They are also skipping the 1* transition n most of the 2* transition n they are jumping straight to 3* land in a faster pace than i did. However they are spending real money on roster slots to keep up with the pace. Its def a different experience for the new players then when we started.

18

Apparently, the players who spend money in the first 7 days will keep on spending money in the future.

I’ve read articles where they showed that the biggest expenditures are within the first 7 days…

As previously said, the Freemium business model is just ugly. It’s not based on the players’ experience but on how you can get them hooked and addicted.

Sad…

19

These aren’t just level 94 rosters, they are level 94 ‘veteran’ rosters, with almost all characters, just underlevelled. They’re the roster of a player who prefers to play PVE exclusively over PVP. The typical new player who just happens to get OBW/Ares to lvl94 and has maybe 18 roster slots is at a disadvantage to almost everyone ahead of them.

In PVP with a veteran 94 roster, it’s generally easy to place T100 to T50, higher with shields.

20

This seems to represent the core part of the thread and I’m left to wonder about the solution. The game rotates through cover rewards so it’s completely unreasonable to just hand out 50+ roster slots dirt cheap for free to play players to keep up with. Doing so would devastate D3’s main revenue structure. The only real ‘fix’ that comes to mind now would be to have a continuous set a noob bracket pvp’s that run along side the vet brackets.

What makes noob brackets unique is that they will only ever feature and rotate throughout the same 5 *** rewards forever. This enables a new player to focus their attention on certain *** stars while building up hp through events to buy roster slots for inevitable unique ***'s earned through tokens. They’ll still have to sell randomly attained covers but at least the stress of trying to keep up with 50+ is now reduced substantially.

The 5 chosen *** characters would have to cover all colours without really being the dominant choice for that type of character since you want to entice players to expand their roster. At the same time you need these characters to be decent enough to help the player move on. With that in mind I’d recommend the following:

  • Lcap (staple character, useful for all modes of play, iconic and natural transitioner from ** tier)
  • The Punisher (typically considered an ideal well rounded character, gives player access to strike tiles)
  • Mystique (decent introduction to AP steal and colour changing while providing a very strong single target burst damage skill)
  • Beast (active blue damager, introduction to AoE, introduction to healing)
  • Doctor Doom (iconic villain, active purple damager, introduction to attack tiles)