PVE Scaling Testing - Enemy Of The State (03/17/16)

[GrumpySmurf1002]

Echoing what others have said, all I see now is having to clear nodes 11 times every 24 hours instead of 8-9 whatever it is. If you’re competitive, you’re now asked to play basically 4-6 hours straight, 2-3 before the end of a sub and 2-3 after. Oh, and the last 4 times you clear those nodes, you get zero rewards. Sounds like a blast!

The nature of a bracketed reward system dictates you have to have some kind of deteriortation of points and optimal play for separation, but that just shows the flaw in such a system.

My suggestion for your next drawing board that has to be gone back to:

24 hours, 7 x nodes. Always worth the same, all rewards progression. Must clear everything to get max progression in each sub/event. Nice, neat, clean. No bracket shopping, no late joining, no death brackets, minor time requirements. And a happier player base.

As far as the scaling, that’s minor good news compared to asking the player base to give up more of their lives to MPQ.

Alternatively, you’ll get more like me, where this will be the end of competitive PvE. Either way. Blech to this.

[Killinstinct]

@babinro

I definitely have some concerns here.

This sounds MUCH worse for anyone playing competitively (read top 10). If I’m understanding it right it means they’ll need to sprint through clears at the start of each sub to get the most out of that 24 timer. Then they’ll have to grind as normal at the end. Effectively increasing the number of clears and the time spent playing PvE.

That being said…those of use who play a more relaxed PvE in the top 50 to Top 100+ range may have things way better. No need to optimize clear times sounds great!

I’m excited to check it out though.

I think you are absolutely right. For the hardcore grinders it will be worse (it will really be ‘who can grind the most’ competition), but for most people who aim for t50/100 it will definitely be better.

[mindsuckr]

@antreas1911

@fmftint

This sounds terrible, new optimal will be, hit all 7x, walk away, grind the last 2 hours

This. Imagine it. Grind in the end each node 5 times till 20 (the new 1) and for zero iso. 59=45 battles. And right away, the new sub starts, another 79=63 battles. 108 in a row for the optimal grind. And this in an event with wave nodes.

Let’s say you are an average player, and it takes you 2.5 hour to grind down an event. This means that when the first sub-event ends, you play like normal and do your 2.5 hours grind. If you want optimal points, then when the next event begins you will have to do the same exact thing. You are looking at 5 hours in a row with no down time or health pack regeneration. Every day of the event. Yes each PVE day only requires 5 hours, but it’s a lot of time to commit at once.

[GrumpySmurf1002]

@udonomefoo

My bet is that the difficulty will scale through those first six clears in a way that makes it nearly impossible to hit each node 12 times in a day without spending ludicrous amounts of HP on health packs, making pve more about surviving long enough to play as many clears as possible with a “grind all nodes to dust” strategy being nearly impossible. We shall see.

Even if that’s true, making PvE more pay to win isn’t really the solution people were asking for.

[pabasa130]

[quote=“David [Hi-Fi]
Moore”]

• Mission Difficulty Change (commonly referred to as scaling)
  o Mission difficulty

• We have changed the way the game determines which level enemies you should go against to be more accurate. Instead of basing difficulty solely on heroes’ levels, it takes your heroes’ power levels into account as well.
  [/quote]

Given that you can have high power levels (more covers) but keep it at a low hero level, this sounds like the difficulty will be slightly higher, no?

• Previously, missions increased in difficulty based on your performance within the event. Mission difficulty is now set at the start of the event and does not change for the duration of the event.

I like this change. 7 day events get ridiculously hard on the last few days.

In the old system, some players saw a big jump in difficulty between the easier missions in a chapter and the harder ones. That’s been smoothed out.

Meh. I like that easy missions were very easy. This change is good for newer players who might have difficulty in the hard nodes, but seems like the harder nodes will be harder for vets.

Players at higher levels will begin to see enemies higher than 395.

NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NO LEVEL 500 JUGGERNAUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

As your roster gets stronger, you’ll see enemies that are relatively easier. (Their levels will still increase, but more slowly than yours do.)

Ah phew. Thanks!

The amount of Power levels an opponent has is based on their level
· Opponents at base level or under will only have a single power level for each of their powers. This scales up to the max level which is 13 power levels.
· Opponents shouldn’t have more than 13 Power levels at any point

Wait what? No more 5/5/5 enemies? This good, right?

Missions increase in difficulty after beating them

• After completing a mission, a screen is shown showing how many levels the enemy has gained.

This is nice!

o The amount of points a mission is worth

• The amount of points you earn while playing a mission no longer changes based on other players’ scores. (This was commonly referred to as rubber banding.)
• The first six times you beat a Mission will be worth the same amount of points.
• After the seventh time you beat a mission, it will be worth less points. Each time you beat the mission after the seventh completion will increase the time it takes to receive full points by 24 hours
  · The amount of times it takes for a mission to reach the minimum amount of points it is worth is five times (down from six times) The minimum amount of points a mission is worth is now 20 (increased from 1).

This is a big one. So I wonder how will the new maths for top scoring will be, given every competitive player (i.e. Players who will hit wave nodes 6 times for the points despite getting no more rewards) will have the same points for the first six hits.

So… Event start, hit node 6 times, then two hours before end, grind all points down to 20? And start the cycle?

[morph3us]

[quote=“David [Hi-Fi]
Moore”]
The main things we are trying to accomplish with this change are improving how mission difficulty is calculated and making missions more about completing challenging-but-fun missions rather than playing missions quickly, at set times during the day.
[/quote]

Reading between the lines, is the implication here is that the nodes in the hard track may scale to become unbeatable, or nearly so? If so, that may mitigate that grindfest that this appears to be, by separating out placements by roster strength and depth.

I’m recalling the old Heroic events where the hard track nodes would actually scale you out, so you wouldn’t be able to beat them at all, way back when. I guess we’ll have to see.

Otherwise, I’d echo the thought that 7 clears up front, plus 12+ clears in a row between the end of sub, and new sub sounds just ghastly.

[Stax_the_Foyer]

Our goal with this change is to make Story events more about beating challenging missions rather than having to beat missions quickly at set intervals during the day."

This has a lot of potential, and it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I’m really excited to see how a lot of these changes work in practice, even if the first pass turns out to be rough around the edges. The 13 power levels max, the transparency in scaling after you beat a level. There are a bunch of great features there.

This would be unequivocally great news if the better rewards were in the progression rewards, so that it was more about getting as far as you could for the best rewards. The interplay with ranking awards is, as always, the potential turd in the punchbowl. Even a small shift in reward importance from ranking to progression on the PvE side would be a great chance, I think.

[Xenoberyll]

it’s awesome they want to change pve.
not sure how this will turn out though. if the 24 hours timer to refresh starts when you beat the node the 7th time, you’ll be forced to play those 7 asap to max your points - not at a time of your chosing. It should just reset at a fixed time instead, so you got a window of time where you can play the node up to 7 times, then it stops yielding points completely until the reset hits (zero because if it still yields points the best strategy would be to play all the time). Plus the reset should also renew the rewards given for the nodes.

I’d like the 24h windows but i’d be most happy if they took the PVP away from the PVE and make it not competitive with other players. Because it will always come down to who plays the optimal strategy best and who can spend the most time on the game. If rewards were solely awarded via progression they could still set the points needed to a stingy amount that not everyone can reach but players who do play hard for them would at least know they will earn them opposed to having a top 1% score but losing out due to bracket competition.

[Kojubat]

[quote=“David [Hi-Fi]
Moore”]
Just for playing in the event, you will get three extra Enemy of the State tokens. If you place in the top 50 of your leaderboard you will also receive 10 Command Points. These will be gifted to everyone that participated the day after the event ends.
[/quote]

So we are also highlighting the issue with drawing tokens after a vault has closed, wherein it resets after each draw.

Now everyone gets to enjoy a Slice 5 vault!

Still, thanks for putting forth some incentive to try the new format, despite not looking so hot on paper for competitive players.

[lukewin]

• The first six times you beat a Mission will be worth the same amount of points.
• After the seventh time you beat a mission, it will be worth less points.

Please clarify.

First 6x, full value.

So is 7th time, less points or “After the seventh time” (8th time), less points?

[lukewin]

While I wouldn’t mind this new scaling, I’d say the bigger problem is the reward structure. How about a revamp of that to go along with the scaling revamp? People probably would be less concerned about the optimal way to play.

[Moon_Roach]

My tablet struggles to play the game for 2 hours without having to be plugged in, and even then it uses more power than comes in and shortly shuts itself down.

If you’re going to change the rules so that to win we have to play for longer times, could you at least do something about the graphics so that they’re not eaters of batteries?

[Buret0]

So… rollover grind 7-8 times, wait until the end of the sub-event and grind again when the points have mostly restored?

Got it. Sounds like a ton of work.

Edit:

At least hitting progression will be easier for those who join late. I can see grinding the first goon node into oblivion and scoring 20 points a shot while my other nodes regenerate after optimal play.

I’ll play it, because I love the survival nodes of EotS, but I’m wondering how much quick scoring is going to make winfinite a requirement.

[udonomefoo]

@Stax the Foyer

This would be unequivocally great news if the better rewards were in the progression rewards, so that it was more about getting as far as you could for the best rewards. The interplay with ranking awards is, as always, the potential turd in the punchbowl. Even a small shift in reward importance from ranking to progression on the PvE side would be a great chance, I think.

Yes! This. Just say no to turds in party drinks.

[Ducky]

[cardoor]

[quote=“David [Hi-Fi]
Moore”]

Playing When You Want to Play
…

In the test event, missions will be worth the same amount of points the first six times you play it. Missions get harder each of these times. Once a mission is beaten six times, the difficulty stops increasing.

…
[/quote]

Thank you, thank you , thank you for giving this a shot! I hope it works out well for everyone, but for someone like me who does not clear each node 7x anyway this is all win. I predict it will be hard for people to get used to the increased challenge, but when playing at your own speed, the increased challenge could be fun.

[ngoni]

Yeah this sounds like a horrible change if you’re trying to play for placement. 5-6 hours straight for ‘optimal’ scoring is just nuts.

[mindsuckr]

Do they expect us to play this a whole lot more? The points speak for themselves.
Last EotS, max progression: 114k
This EotS, max progression: 156k
That’s a 38% increase in points required for maximum progression.

[mouser]

[quote=“David [Hi-Fi]
Moore”]

• The first six times you beat a Mission will be worth the same amount of points.

• After the seventh time you beat a mission, it will be worth less points.

• • · Each time you beat the mission after the seventh completion will increase the time it takes to receive full points by 24 hours
    · The amount of times it takes for a mission to reach the minimum amount of points it is worth is five times (down from six times)
• • The minimum amount of points a mission is worth is now 20 (increased from 1).

• Typically, Join Forces missions decrease in points immediately after playing it once.”

[/quote]

There is some ambiguity in your description: “After the seventh time you beat a mission, it will be worth less points.”

Do you mean to say "The seventh time you beat a mission it will be worth less points? Or “the eighth time you beat a mission it will be worth less points”?

[fmftint]

what about ties? anyone that plays 4x, 5x, 6x will have the exact same score regardless of when they played