Why change 3* prize to 2* prize on gauntlet? Streamlined

Marvel Puzzle Quest MPQ General Discussion
1

I’m writing this long, detailed post, to show that I know the history (all 4 days so far) of the problem, I know and understand both sides of the problem, and I understand why I have the opinion that I do of the situation. Maybe if people know that I know both sides, they won’t try to derail the topic with hyperbolic statements to give the objective reader an inaccurate picture of what I am hoping to accomplish. What I am hoping to accomplish is for D3 to improve their communication, with the forum in particular, with clear and upfront communication. This is a streamlined version of the “Why change 3* prize to 2* prize on gauntlet?” thread.

Timeline

Gauntlet starts on Saturday with reward tiers that did not exist before. Nothing is mentioned on the forum or in game beforehand to inform people about the change.

I’m not outraged or upset by the usually noncompetitive Gauntlet having placement rewards, especially when the reward tiers are 1-10, 11-10000. A lot of people are. I don’t agree with them, it’s the same as usual, except for .1% of the players / bracket. It’s actually better for the 99.9% / bracket because they get an additional standard token, and a .1% chance / bracket at a 10 pack. Then they notice something about the 10 pack.

People notice 3 *s on a graphic, but no confirmation in the corresponding texts in the Event rules or popup. The text accompanying the graphic in the Event Rewards reads The Gauntlet 10-Pack. The text in the popup and Event rules says “win a 10x Gauntlet Token!” So there is already inconsistency in the text.

Some expend ISO on boosts, HP on healthpacks and boosts, to try to speedrun for that 10 pack. Some on the idea that it contains 10 3*, some on the idea that it is a normal 2* 10 pack, some just because they like the competition and their names on the leaderboards. Many reasons to believe that it is a normal 2* 10 pack and there are many reason to believe that it is a 3* 10 pack.

Normal 2* 10 pack reasons
A)Never been a 3* 10 pack

A1)“No where did it state the 10 pack had any guaranteed 3s in it. People made an assumption instead of simply asking if what the 3 meant. If people would have taken a minute to ask, we could have gotten an answer and this thread would not be necessary.” (The_Valeyard) [Event launched on Saturday, D3 doesn’t do weekends, even if we asked, we wouldn’t have gotten an answer]

A2)"I’m surprised that anyone thought that meant a 10 pack filled with just 3 stars.

Have you ever ever seen that before?"(onimus) [PPPlaya shows pictures of a 3* token that guaranteed a no less than a 3*, a 10 pack with 3* would guarantee no less than a 3*, cuz logic, right?]

A3)Why would anyone think the 10-pack gave 10 3*s? Did you start playing yesterday? That is literally the only excuse for this assumption. Anyone with any experience in the game would have a more realistic assumption. (Square) [Actually, a lot of people are noobs. In one of the previous Q&As, the devs stated that 56% of the playerbase, had been playing for less than 3 months since September. My numbers and dates might be off, so don’t quote me. Forum users, are a small percent of the playerbase, so maybe they should know. But there is a lot in the playerbase that buy token packs, so I would assume that they don’t have a lot of experience in the game, if they don’t know not to buy token packs.]

3* 10 pack reasons

A)Never been a 3* 10 pack, but never been a Gauntlet with placement rewards before

A1)Why else would the reward structure be set up with so much dichotomy?!(zonatahunt) 1-10, 11-10000

B)The number of stars on a token has always corresponded to the minimum rarity of the cover it will dispense (CrookedKnight)

B1)1* tokens offer 1* or better
2* tokens offer 2* or better
3* tokens offer … 2* or better?(MikeHock)

C)The devs have stated that they are trying to help the 2* to 3* transition, 10 3* would really help in that

Regardless of what camp you fall in, decisions are made based off assumptions. There’s a saying, “When you assume, you make an @$$ out of you and me.” How do you leave no room for assumptions? Communicate clearly, leave no room for assumptions. This was not done, as the graphic gave room to contradict the text and vice versa, the text gave room to contradict the graphic.

This is my main gripe with the whole situation. You normally don’t wanna leave margin for error, lest you pay the consequences for the error. The room was left for error/assumptions, and the consequences is this situation, with both sides having legitimate reasons for choosing their side.

I hoped it was a 3* 10 pack, but I expected a regular 10 pack. I was happy to trade 200 HP and 27 all color boosts and countless ISO for 2 color boosts for what I was expecting, and what I was hoping for. I would do it again in a heartbeat, because I only get the 4k season reward 10 pk. I don’t place well enough in seasons to see 10 pks any other times.

Not everyone has my line of thinking. Others thought it was a 3* 10 pack, so they pursued it like one. I don’t blame them for being upset, I just don’t agree with them. They took a gamble since there was no solid indication that it was a 3* 10 pack or a 2* 10 pack. They wouldn’t have had to take that gamble if, you guessed it, there was no room for error that could have been avoided with upfront and clear communication. If there had not been conflicting information, they would not be able to gamble and lose. Who put out the conflicting information, and by conflicting information, I mean the graphic with 3 stars and the text that neither confirmed nor denied it’s existence? If you said D3, you’re right.

Then a change is made. No idea when exactly, but it is noticed around 5 pm EST yesterday. No upfront communication about the image being changed, by removing a star, just a ninja update that was probably expected to go unnoticed. In the “The Gauntlet - Competitive Edition Feb 7- 12” thread it is noted. 2 minutes later, the current thread is created. In the other thread, after the change is noticed, people are still wondering if the 10 pack contained all 3*. CrookedKnight relays the information from the current thread to the other thread. (The other thread also starts off with debate about whether or not it was a 3* 10 pack or a 2* 10 pack, 2 days earlier.) [Sidenote - Turul mentions that the graphic has 3* on it, so Turul’s datamining would’ve been beneficial if Turul would’ve leaked the info earlier, so the debate could occur, and give the Devs a chance to clear up confusion before the whole thing took off. But since the devs don’t like datamining, Turul is discouraged from leaking things too early.] The “Gauntlet, Are you kidding me?” thread also debates the 2*/3* issue. Granted, these threads all started on a Saturday. Those in the know, know D3 doesn’t do weekends. But they do launch events on weekends, so I assume they just prepare for $h!t$+0rm$ on Mondays.

Multiple people have already completed the Gauntlet, and afterwards the image was changed. That is the point of the current thread. 23 minutes later, relevant posts

IceIX “Pretty much exactly what’s been stated here. The 3* notation made it seem like the Token was giving out a higher tier of things than it actually is. Sure, there’s a chance of 3s (and 4s) in there, but 2s are more likely so it should be a 2 token. Just a mistake in rarity for the token itself.”

CrookedKnight “It would have been really good to have up-front communication on this. The number of stars on a token has always corresponded to the minimum rarity of the cover it will dispense; even the anniversary tokens were star.png
star.png
. Changing that up without notice (assuming this was deliberate and not a typo) is non-good.”

IceIX “Not deliberate, hence why it was flipped to a 2* reward just like the Heroic 10 Packs.”

fmftint “Why did it take the developers so long to notice/fix What the players saw in the event preview?”

IceIX “We noticed, but fixing it means pushing it into a daily patch, making sure said patch functions correctly, etc. Which we did. It’s just not in the realm of “OMG, this needs to be fixed nao or the servers will explode” hotfixes is all.”

lukewin "Thanks for getting to the forums in a timely manner to let us know that you noticed. icon_rolleyes.gif
"

Then this is where the ball starts rolling, with my post.

"Me too, but I was hopefully optimistic. If IceIX’s response is D3’s response, then it is a horrible method of delivering their acknowledgement/response to their mistake. Unfortunately, it falls in line, with most of the D3 communications, meaning it is lacking, late or both. I would be OK with, hey guys, we messed up and have rectified our mistake. Sorry.

I dont need or expect any compensation, but I would appreciate communication and acknowledgement/ownership of their mistake. I know others might demand more or whine about more, but that’s my opinion."

GuntherBlobel “Here’s the thing: they didn’t actually make a mistake. You did. I think you got all the owning up that you are going to get.”

Some back and forth between us, and I’m accused of manufacturing a controversy.

GothicKratos "It was a typo - If you looked at the token odds, I’m 100% positive it didn’t say guaranteed 3* (i.e. no 1* or 2* in the odds) - yeah it sucks that some people had false pretenses, but they did own up to their mistake. Do you want compensation for your boosts? icon_lol.gif
I’m at a lose here, did you want some crow eating apology letter for a typo? icon_rolleyes.gif
"

My rebuttal to GuntherBlobel

“I am not trying to manufacture a controversy. You are trying to make it a controversy, by selectively reading things in my post and misunderstanding them.
I am pointing out their communication sucks. I would love a 3* 10 pack, but I am happy with a 10 pack. Lemme just answer by quoting statements I’ve already made.”

Quote my original post

Then my rebuttal to GothicKratos
"The fact that they changed the image, and the only acknowledgement is an answer in a thread specifically asking why the change was made is pretty poor. The way that they owned up to it in such a nonchalant manner, where it’s just brushed off, is also off-putting. Do I want compensation for my boosts? Check above, where I said “I dont need or expect any compensation”. I’ve bolded it and and colored it so you don’t miss it. Do I want a crow eating apology for a mistake made in an image? Check above, where I said “I dont need or expect any compensation”. I’ve bolded it and and colored it so you don’t miss it.

PS. Check above, where I said “I dont need or expect any compensation”. I’ve bolded it and and colored it so you don’t miss it."

The problem here is again, miscommunication, however, this time on the parts of GuntherBlobel and GothicKratos. They didn’t read my entire post, and decided to go off on their own agenda, assuming that I was wanting something, when I clearly had written that I did not need or expect any compensation.

GuntherBlobel upvotes my post and comments “Apologies about claiming you wanted compensation. I still don’t think they actually made a mistake. They are just calling it a mistake, because thats what you do when you represent a business.”

A lot of back and forth between me and GothicKratos, most of mine is repeating the same thing by quoting the same comments. So I am essentially a broken record playing to a brick wall. I decided to not continue going back and forth with GothicKratos because how many times could I say the same thing? Didn’t want to clog up the thread with irrelevant information and what essentially amounted to double posts, from me.

So we move on.

lukewin "But there was a picture with 3*s on it. It just created the possibility for confusion and speculation. …(I make a stupid analogy)…

The_Valeyard "That’s right it created “confusion and speculation.” For MPQ’s part, they changed it to 2* when the typo was discovered. This “communicated” that the initial graphic should have had only 2*'s. If any one was still unclear at this point, they could have just asked, although I have no clue what would still have been fuzzy about it. So, there should be no outrage over a lack of communication. If you do not like how it was communicated, that is a you problem.

As for the initial speculation, the answer is right there. Then, the speculators seem to want to be upset at everyone else because they made the speculation. People made speculations (or wanted MPQ to read their minds that they wanted confirmation) instead of simply asking for clarification."

This is exactly my point. They “communicated” by changing the “typo”. So essentially, a ninja update. I would like to see clear communication, instead of having to infer it by their actions. We could not just have asked, as the event launched on a Saturday, and D3 doesn’t do weekends.

The whole point of my posts, was I would like to see D3 have clearer communication upfront. It eliminates these types of situations, and then only leaves the people that are gonna complain about everything, complaining about everything. I understand they do not want to post all their bugs and how they have fixed them, but I think it would create more goodwill, and a good show of faith, that although they make mistakes, they own up to them and fix them. This is a lot better than the current image of sweeping their bugs/fixes under the rug.

I really like MPQ. I want it to succeed, not enough to pay for it, as I remain F2P, but I try to encourage other forum users who are asking for advice, in hopes that they stick around and hopefully pump some money into the game. I would rather not make excuses for D3’s mistakes, but I’d rather them own them, and fix them. Mistakes happen. You can either fix them or make it worse by fixing and hiding them. I try to give them honest feedback. What they choose to do with it, is up to them.

2

Like sands through the hourglass, these are the days of our forum lives…

Sometimes, these forums read like a soap opera.

I personally have nothing to contribute, however, so carry on. icon_e_smile.gif

3

I just want to add one other reason for why people thought it was plausible for a star.png
star.png
star.png
10-pack to include only rare covers: As a 1-10 placement reward in a 10,000-person bracket (that is, 1 in 1,000 will get them), these 10-packs are among the most difficult-to-obtain rewards in any event, far more exclusive than the 10-packs that go out as PvP season prizes, so it’s reasonable to think they’d be better than the average 10-pack.

By contrast, the top 50 in 5,000-person PvP season brackets will get at least one 10-pack, making it a 1 in 100 prize. The 1st place reward in a PvP and the 1-2 place reward in a standard PvE are both 1 in 500 prizes. 1st place in a 4* release is a 1 in 1,000 prize, and that’s four guaranteed 4* covers, which I think we’d all agree is better than 10 2* token pulls. The 1 in 1,000 reward for a PvP season is three heroic 10-packs. So the rarity of the reward seemed to support the idea that we were looking at something new.

4

I don’t think you now what the word streamlined means.

5

Hey man, it was 5 pages.

6

ACTUAL streamlined version.

Some people thought that the gauntlet 10 pack might be full of 3*s instead of full of 10 gauntlet cover tokens.
OTHER people are complaining on their behalf because it’s the internet and ,well, we all like to complain.
One thread of complaints isn’t enough, we need to argue in a SECOND THREAD because this is the number one top issue in the game being as it has effected about 0.1% of the MPQ player base assuming no-one is skipping the gauntlet and everyone who placed top 10 didn’t take a moment to check what they were trying to win.

Let us all take a moment to be very upset about the fact something slightly misleading that effects almost no-one wasn’t hotfixed immediately.
Let us all take a moment to be very upset IceX didn’t grovellingly appologise for potentially inconveniencing almost no-one.
Let us all take a moment to hope this completely superfluous second thread gets locked.

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Nothing misleading or condescending there icon_rolleyes.gif

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Was there some confusion here? Yes. I personally did a double take when I saw the *** pack graphic, but then quickly realized that my chances of winning said prize were zero and wandered off. The people who have a right to be upset are those who were misled by this and invested heavily in boosts and health packs in an attempt to win a prize which was not what it appeared to be. It might have been an accident, but that’s still bait and switch territory, and I would suggest anyone who falls into that category turn your e-rage away from the forum and point it in the direction of customer support. They’ll probably tell you to go fly a kite, but you’ve got a legit gripe and hey, you never know.

To everyone else raging about…well, whatever you’re raging about, it seems to me that it’s become a bit much. And this is coming from someone who has been very critical of how this game has been handled in the past, and has at times been accused of making mountains out of molehills. Add this to the list of things that they haven’t communicated or handled particularly well and move along. There really isn’t that much to see here.

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No one is forcing you to read these threads/posts. Doesn’t look like you did anyway. Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation, while derailing the thread. Something that I mentioned in the first paragraph that might happen, “derail the topic with hyperbolic statements to give the objective reader an inaccurate picture of what I am hoping to accomplish.” And then of course, you kinda missed the point, which was in a bigger font, What I am hoping to accomplish is for D3 to improve their communication, with the forum in particular, with clear and upfront communication.

10

Here’s an acutal Streamlined version

Gauntlet starts on Saturday, with text that contradicts image
People beat Gauntlet
People argue that 10 pack is regular 2* / special 3* 10 pk
D3 changes image with no announcement on Monday
People ask why
IceIX says a mistake, mistake fixed, walks away, no further communication/explanation
People debate/argue over trivial match 3 game, then post about it on forum about said match 3 game

11

Let us all take a moment to complain about the complaining.

12

I won a 10 pack, I’m one of those people that didn’t check what I was playing for. This 10 pack is a 10 pack I didn’t have/wouldn’t have gotten if I didn’t gauntlet the thing.

13

I’m not the one who derailed the thread!!! icon_cry.gif
Blame the guy who posted a long-winded and nigh unreadable wall of text in a thread meant to streamline the discussion!

I’ll give you a reply though, why not?

The thread that has been copy pasted… err streamlined was opened on 9Feb at 3:19 pm. IceX replied to that thread 23 minutes later with a clear response. Even crazy ppl will admit that was plenty fast enough to reply to a thread. So the complaint is that it wasn’t up front? Well I know I make all my mistakes (if you can even call it that) with labelling with malice aforethought, so no reason I can’t post that i’ll be making a mistake in advance of it actually happening!!!

I also know that it is FAR more important to correct the forum BEFORE correcting the mistake. It is also vitally important that all those things happen terribly quickly because the error in question affects almost no-one (10/10000 assuming absolutely no-one who got top 10 is cursed with reasoning skills).

Bottom line is this was NOT a big deal. If you pushed to get top 10 thinking a gauntlet 10 pack somehow didn’t contain gauntlet tokens but instead had 3* tokens then I DO have sympathy but will point out there were ways to work it out all by yourselves. YES there is a risk of confusion when you use star ratings for heroes AND star ratings for rewards but the idea it’s some watershed moment in condemning D3’s communication is frankly silly.

Could the communication have been better? Yes, a bit better although a note on the forum prior to a fix alters basically nothing. Anyone thinking they were getting a 3* 10 pack (somehow) would still be roughly the same level of upset. The fact a potentially misleading label got altered in game (not like it was actually incorrect in any way factually speaking) AND the fact a thread was replied to in sub 30 minutes is, IMO, good communication and error fixing

14

Now now, cool your jets. This is supposed to be a civilized discussion. No reason for that sarcasm of yours and the exaggerations. You also don’t get to determine that it was not a big deal. Please keep in mind that this is your opinion alone and others may differ.

@below: You don’t need to get so defensive. I am just trying to help.

15

I said WHY I think it’s not a big deal (effects at most 10/10000 players and relies on none of them putting much effort into checking what they were playing for to reach that number AND a prompt reply to the forum thread AND given the constraints of updating a live software platform a pretty timely change to something that is potentially misleading but NOT factually inaccurate). If you believe it IS a big deal then explain why. What makes this important? Why should I feel outraged about their communication on this matter?

If something devolves into importance purely because it’s someone’s “personal opinion” then why come to a forum to discuss it? Keep it personal.

EDIT: oh… and what exaggeration? I’m either being sarcastic OR exaggerating, multiple choice really.

EDIT2: I suppose perhaps I could be sarcastically exaggerating… or exaggerating for sarcastic effect… maybe i’ll cop to both then.

16

I kinda did preface it with “I’m writing this long, detailed post,”. Although the conversations started on Saturday, the change on D3’s side with the image did not occur until Monday afternoon. The thread was created in reaction to that, and the post from IceIX was created in reaction to the thread creation. So would it have been less of an issue, if we created a thread on Saturday, not knowing they would change the image and knowing that they don’t work on the weekends? We are only able to react, since we don’t know how things are going to launch. They have known, probably a minimum of 2 weeks, that the event was going to launch, and could’ve checked their work to notice a small error, that would affect a small subset, but a subset, nonetheless. As opposed to focusing on the problem, I’d rather focus on a solution.

Don’t think many will disagree that D3 could use some QA. I read the forums a lot, so this is just the latest bug that has popped up. It’s not like this is the first thing that has happened and I’m trying to rally a lynch mob. There are numerous complaints about how horrible CS is, how there is no follow up, how tickets sit untended to, and disappear into the ether, as if they never existed. Instead of trying to make excuses, I’m trying to make it better. Sorry if you don’t like my means of doing so, but I don’t think yours are helping any situations either.

17

QA is a different thing entirely. Complain about QA and i’ll agree fully.
CS (as in responding to tickets) is again a different thing entirely. It is much too hit and miss plus overly slow at times. Again a fair complaint.

Communication though has improved. The communication elements of this event were pretty decent. Not perfect but good enough.

Also the error (again I use the term loosely. At worst an unclear Ui element that COULD be worked around with a little thought) was minor. It affected very few ppl. It doesn’t deserve another thread to discuss it (IMO). I’ll also say it’s not a bug. Nothing was factually incorrect. Nothing was failing to work as intended.

It’s being blown fully out of proportion and you diminish any arguments you may have about communication by associating them with something which impacted such a SMALL subset of ppl.

18

To me, it all comes down to the fact that the devs are people, too. They aren’t perfect. They are trying to do a job, make money with a product they hope others will enjoy. They don’t think of everything and I don’t expect them to. They make mistakes, I expect them to. I’m glad my work is only reviewed by a handful of people, most of whom are not judgmental and want me to improve and learn.

Sure, it ‘might’ have been a typo and a mistake to put the star.png
star.png
star.png
on the pack. Sure they didn’t communicate well, both over the weekend and the days following. But they most likely have other things on their plate. Everything that the devs share on this forum gets dissected to a degree that they might not feel comfortable giving a further explanation or apology for fear of invoking other players ire. They probably rated this ‘issue’ as a 2 on a 1-10 scale and feel they’ve fixed it and given it enough time and focus. One thing I learned from the video Q&A was that they don’t seem to have a large master plan. They don’t know where they are going over a medium to long term. This means that they are working on the events coming up soon and don’t have time or resources for disaster control.

I still enjoy the game. I imagine most still do. It would be nice if the devs communicated more, but I think it’s cool that they communicate and participate at all. Growing up, I never imagined talking to the creators of Mario Bros, Mario Kart, GoldenEye, or other games I spent too much time on.

Yep I’m a shill. I’ll take my hp now. icon_lol.gif

19

Warning Long post ahead, spoilering content, so if you wanna read it, click it.

[spoiler]I agree that communication has improved over the last few months. I was very satisfied with the last Q&A compared to the months before. Mainly, because of the method of …communication. It is very hard to get across in words/posts, the tone you are trying to convey, which makes the syntax and grammar used all the more important.

The error, technically correct, was very minute. It was one star on one image. But that doesn’t negate how much damage it can do. A speck of dust can ruin a microchip. Doesn’t matter the size of the problem, if the end result is disruption.

People are going to complain about everything, and the issue I am trying to bring to light, communication, shouldn’t be lumped with an issue like the removal of one star. But that removal of the one star and the communication that followed, illuminated the issue I am trying to bring to light. I’ve stated multiple times I don’t care about the uproar about the star, my issue is the communication. I’d hate to scour through the forums and show more examples, because to a lot of people, it doesn’t matter. They’re still thinking that I’m upset that I am not getting 10 3*s.

The Scotland Yard premature release in slice 1 from 2 PVEs ago, is an example I know off the top of my head. They released a sub early, let it hang out for 3 hrs, then pulled it while allowing people to keep their scores from that 3 hr window. One guy in my bracket got 10k points from that. I don’t blame him, he didn’t do anything wrong, he just gambled and won. Did they address the situation? Not really, until people complained. Of course, they couldn’t react until we reacted. Then on top of poor delivery, the content sucked. People were posting their replies they received from CS, which went along the lines of it was only available for 3 hrs, no one gained a lead that could not be overcome. This was the PVE with Starlord on the line. So the only people that knew about the problem and CS’s reply, were those that read the thread in the Bugs thread, and read the one post that a dev posted in the middle of the event thread. I lucked out. I took screens and I sent them to someone, who followed up, because they were #11. We both got the T10 rewards, despite me finishing 16th.

I did send an email for ticket creation, right when it disappeared because I didn’t know that it was released early, or why it was pulled. I just saw it disappear. Then I came to the forums. That is the first time I sent off an email, and I’m glad I did. The reason I decided to send off the email, was because people were reporting that they got Elektra covers, HP and ISO from when the bugs occurred in the Prodigal Son event. I had the same bugs, but because I didn’t send off an email or create a ticket, I was left high and dry.

People will get a negative perception of D3, if they encounter bugs, and do not know how to proceed. I assume they’ll just figure that’s how D3 works. It turns them off, and while I will admit that the devs do interact with the forum a lot more, than in other games, this game isn’t as big as those other games.

Acknowledging the problem is the first step in correcting it. If we just go on, thinking none of these issues matter, we’ll eventually get to a point where all the issues are piled up, and there’s no way to address any of them, without being completely overwhelmed. That’s kinda what has happened with this game, roster slot dilemma, ISO shortage, 3* character dilution, character release schedule, vaulting, etc. If we could eliminate the issue of poor communication, I think a lot of people, myself included, would cut them more slack with the issues in the game. Good communication would probably produce more goodwill than the effort required to do it.

That’s my 2 cents. I’m gonna go back to the beginning and preface that this is a long post.[/spoiler]

20

i did like the format of the OP. it reads like those oral histories that ESPN/Grantland does about stuff like the Malice at the Palace and the filming of Boogie Nights.