An open letter to Demiurge (The 3-Star Deadlock)

Marvel Puzzle Quest MPQ General Discussion
1

First of all my roster:

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Plus tons of more almost or completely covered chars.
Take it all in.

Seems decent enough right? And yet I have nowhere to go from there. I am completely stuck in my current phase. Every now and then a new char comes along but that doesn’t help me with the 4 Star Transition, all it does is increase my roster by 1 character I will probably never use. I’ve been trucking along peacefully but the PVP is getting harder all the while I am making absolutely no progress at all. As of late it’s even become rather difficult to even place in the Top25. The next logical step would be to get myself an Xforce and a 4hor (who I have 6 covers for). But it’s impossible to get their covers. There are no 3 Stars at 1000 points in my brackets and all you’d have to fight are xforce 4hor teams. Even going in with full boosts those can take you out easily. Placing first is also an illusion.

An option I have is to buy 3 more covers for my Xforce and bring him up (which I can afford) but that brings with it tons of negative side effects. I will get punished severely in PvE for it. Plus you never know when they will nerf the ThorForce and I will be stuck with absurd scaling and chars less useful than I’d hoped. Let’s face it, 4hor and Xforce tower above all the other 4s which is a HUGE problem for Demiurge. You are working on new exciting 4s but the impact of them is greatly diminished because nobody cares about them as long as they are not as strong as those existing 2. What are the other 4s? Fury, IW, Dino, Elektra, Starlord. Nobody cares about them. This is a problem and the developers are aware of it because they have to introduce relevant characters to the game but they can’t because Xforce 4hor have taken away all their design space.
Can you openly talk about the future of the 4 Stars? As long as I have to fear that whoever I level for thousands of HP will get nerfed and according to your reimbursement policy will leave me with a Candy Apple where all my currency used to be. Or are we going to pretend that everything is fine and it should be almost impossible for a new player to climb the ranks without spending a significant amount of money on the game. I have even seen 2 Star players who have a singulaar 270 553 Xforce, what is up with that? Can you assure everyone that nothing is going to happen to either Xforce or 4hor so people can make their move and spend their money? I am lucky in the regard that I am only missing 3 covers but some people need far more and it requirses a significantly larger investment.

I would also like to touch on the PvE scaling issue. A single 270 4star drives the scaling ad absurdum . Realistically if you levelled a 4 star you would need to use him for almost all subsequent Nodes because most 3s can’t match up with a lvl 300 Ares. Because of that people need to decide whether they want a strong char or to still have reasonable scaling. Several people in my alliance have fully covered 220 Xforces 4hors, which is comical. They are intentionally gimping them because levelling the chars punishes them. I am not a scaling scientist and can’t offer a solution that solves this all but I can see that the space inbetween the 3 and 4 Star land leaves people in a bad spot for PvP aswell as PvE.

I’d like to hear from other people who are trying to make their 4 Star transition and what it has been like for them for last couple months. I’m ready to hear what I am doing wrong and open to strategies how even I can reach 1000 reliably with only a lvl 70 Bullseye and a 150 Invisible Women.

2

I’ve been getting about 2250 HP a season, which gets me almost one 4* cover per season. To do this I shield only every other PVP, never twice, never 8 hour, never buy anything else with HP. I’ve just accepted it would come to this - I’m not buying any 3*'s that would “advance” my roster, as they’ll still get me stuck behind the 4* wall.

Got lucky with X-force draws and started 5/2/1, that means I’m at 5/5/1 after three seasons of this transition - doing pretty well! For one character; my PVE “hard nodes” have become impossible - the only chance is I must run my 4* + buffed 3*'s in every one, as OP mentions/fears. Many here say the better payment is do two fights, 3-hr shield, do two fights, 8 hr shield, wait 8 hours repeat: apparently that gets you into the 1K range with ~800HP instead of the 2500 for a cover. This seems like an iffy proposition for my taste/roster, and I assume you can do this once a week at the most without buying HP.

I think they’ll never come out and say it, but they’ve made it very obvious: the “end game” is 4* now - 3* won’t (and shouldn’t) compete with that. You can get one cover per season through alliances and one through HP saving. You might be able to get a couple more select ones if you have a good enough roster - but “good enough” might mean multiple 4*'s. The only effective (efficient) way to advance into 4* land is to pay your way there (currently - many had X-force maxed when he was one of two 4*'s, and were able to earn 4hor when 3*'s/shielding could get 4*'s for you).

I think somewhere they mentioned they want the 3*->4* transition to be easier (faster?) than 2*->3*, right now there is no way that is the case, and the daily 3* will make 3* much, much faster to get to. I’m curious to see their solution - which has to be coming soon. Otherwise soon they’ll have many, many new players (“more than half have played 60 days or less”) that can’t possibly buy the 4* covers because they can’t earn that first cover.

Also there is so much talk of Nerf/Buff. Like the OP, I’ve debated about buying covers - I could drop $100 and be playing X-force/4hor. But unless/until I hear some guarantees that 4*'s should beat 3*'s, that Nerfs aren’t coming, that refunds would be substantial: I don’t think that money needs to be spent.

3

I feel your pain man. I have a team of 3* characters - who I enjoy playing mind you. However, with the changes to PvP, I can no longer place in Top 25. So how can I earn 4* covers to develop a 4* centerpiece? And by centerpiece, I of course mean Lady Thor or X-Force because who else do I encounter ad nauseum in the Top 50 of my brackets?

I really wish D3P would somehow separate rewards for 2*, 3*, and 4* players because it just feels like the rich getting richer a lot of the time. Heck, fix the bracketing system where you group players with similar strength teams. Players utilizing 4* characters participate in this event. Players utilizing 3* characters play here. And so on.

Truth be told, I really enjoy the 3* game. The character covers are attainable by chance if not by skill, affordable if nothing else. And to level up a 3* character requires ISO that can be attained at a reasonable pace. Also, you see such a diverse assortment of teams compared to the same lame Lady Thor/X-Force combo at the top. I would rather not be forced to “upgrade” to the 4* game the way things are.

4

They just lowered the progression level to get a 4* from 1,300 to 1,000. At 1,300, it was quite difficult to do (I only did it once, with a lot of stress and shields). At 1,000, it’s very possible.

For ppplaya, the OP, he has a roster that can get to 1,000. Especially in the upcoming Patch PVP. In that PVP, there will be no X-Force, plus he’ll have a boosted Patch. (I would play with CMags and Laken) If he can’t get the 4* Thor at 1,000 points, that’s poor play, not D3 making it too tough.

Here is the way I would go for it: get up around 800 before you go to bed. Shield for 8 hours. Queue up some big points before bed/when you wake up. When the shield is about to go, play two rounds. You should be able to get 70-90 points. Shield again for three. Queue again. Play two more. Get another 70. Shield for 8 hours. Queue again. If you’re close to 1,000 points, jump in about 8 minutes before the end. If you aren’t, do one more jump with a 3 hour shield.

That’s 375-450 hp for a 4* Thor cover. Plus you get 100 hp back in progression, it puts you in top 25 which nets you another 100, plus 50 if you’re in a top 250 alliance. So, that’s 125-200 hp total for a 4* Thor cover.

I never got too hung up in the 2*/3*/4* transition. I was in a decent alliance, and they just said I could do it, not to worry about attacking above my class. So, I started pushing to 800 to get my 3s, now I’m pushing to 1,000 for 4s. Right now, I just got the Nick Fury yellow by killing 249 Mystique & 270 XF Thor teams. My XF is 221, my Mystique (boosted) 150, and a levelled Hood. I usually win 6 out of 7, I was luckier this time and haven’t lost yet. You are smarter than the computer. The computer wins by luck, you win by skill. Do it!

5

I’m sorry but 1,000 isn’t very possible - maybe just possible - when you have 4* teams beating you down starting at 700. Any opponents he queues up at 700 will undoubtedly feature a maxed (or close to it) Lady Thor. He’ll only have a shot at one match because going for two is guaranteed to cost you points unshielded. And if he loses, then so much for that endeavor and good luck trying to recover.

I know this because I’ve encountered this the last few PvP’s. I don’t think X-Force’s absence will greatly impact the routine. Lady Thor has become THAT widespread in my brackets.

6

Just a quick reply to this post… I got nice 3* roster,lot of covers and short of milions iso but thats a real problem which is not an issue in this post… icon_e_wink.gif

Anyway with new progression changes and hulk/patch combo i m taking 4* regulary on 1k points… sure it cost some hero points to shield hop and gonna take some time to take all needed covers for heroes i want but with that change i m sure they made a huge move to make possible transition to 4*… so no worries just get hulk and start earning all of those 4* covers u need… icon_e_wink.gif

7

My experience is very similar to the OP and SnowCaTT. I’ve got my X-Force up to 5/4/2, but I won’t level him past 166 because, frankly, PvE is hard enough with a bunch of 166’s. I don’t need it to be any harder just to move one character above that line. I have a fully covered IW, and I"m close to the Fury re-supplies which will get me to a 3/3/3 Fury. But IW is no help, and Fury will be usable for PvE, but no one fears him in PvE. I have only one Thor cover,so no help there. I don’t feel like I can do better than top 50 in PvP, and I’m guessing pretty soon I won’t be able to be better than top 100. So I’m content to just get one cover in those nowadays. Once I can’t get top 100 because there are so many 4* rosters, I’ll probably just not bother with PvP.

I would absolutely love the chance to PvP with just other 3* rosters. Even if I lose the use of my X-Force, the 166’s vs. 166’s battles are fun. The 166’s vs. 270’s are not.

But, frankly, I’m happy to be in a casual alliance (so no covers there), I don’t want to grind during the night during 4* PvE’s (so no 4* covers there, since you have to be top 50), I don’t want to do the shield hopping necessary to get to 1000 points (so no 4* covers there). I get 4*'s through lucky token draws, I’ve bought 1 X-Force cover and will probably buy the 5th black, and I guess that’s okay. I like collecting the characters and leveling them up and getting to play with them.

I remember being a 2* player and feeling like if I played smart enough and hard enough I could become a 3* player. I worked at it and I did it, and I feel good about that. But right now, I don’t feel like I can become a 4* player. The ways to acquire 4* covers are just out of the scope of the way I enjoy playing the game. I’m glad to see the daily PvE coming, which should really help the 3* transition, and I can only hope that there is something in the works to help players like me and the others who are posting here to feel like we have a shot at the 4* game.

8

This does make me wonder why character levels are capped; why is the player’s progress is arbitrarily blocked for the vast majority of characters in the game? At least 75% of the characters in the game (a game focused on the great characters from the Marvel universe) become obsolete when the player reaches higher levels of play.

Do you think that you’d see more variety at the upper end of PVP ladders if everyone from 1* Black Widow to 4* Star Lord could reach level 270? As it stands top-tier competitive players only have 7 4*s to choose from who can reach competitive levels above 166, and picking Thor + X-Force is a matter of limited options.

At least with more combo options, there might be some competitive mixes or counters that could break the stranglehold those two have on the top tier of play, and allowing such a change may even give top-tier players something new to focus their efforts on so they won’t be so intensely focused on crushing PVP up-and-comers with Thor/X-Force.

9

You say that as if it doesn’t happen to everyone. I had no interest in the prizes in the last PvP, so once I got the last HP progression, I just stopped and sat there unshielded with my maxed 4s and lv 200 (buffed) Mystique, and ended up getting hit down from the 760s to 620 by the time the event ended. It’s not as if having 4’s is like getting a “go directly to 1,000” card. You still have to time your runs and shield properly. There’s no reason why the OP can’t do the same with that roster. I’ve seen worse do it.

10

The presence of nothing but Juggs and OBW at the high end of the BoP PvPs, says “no” to your question.

11

This quote was interesting to me. When I think back to the PvEs when 4s were introduced, I’ve got to admit that coming away with multiple covers was out of the scope of the way I enjoy playing the game too… but I wanted them enough to do it anyway.

12

I agree that there are 4* Thors in the high end. It’s just a matter of not being scared of them. Hood is great to use against her.

3s can beat 4 Thor, with help from some boosts (I often go in with +3 green/black and +50% green/black damage). With shields, you can hit 1,000. I have taken out dozens of 270 4* Thors.

13

I’m not going to bother reading the replies. I have no idea at all why you’re thinking about the 4* transition. I wouldn’t consider you through the 3* transition. You have 4 essentially maxed characters. And you think you’re ready for the big time?

I feel like giving everyone an easy 2* transition gave the expectation that the 3* and 4* transitions would be faster or something.

Of course you feel stuck if you’re trying to 4* transition. Work on the 3*'s first. Work on finishing BP. Work on finishing Daken. Finish leveling Blade. Work on Loki. The current 3* flavor of the month is pushing with Hulk/Patch, which allows 3* rosters to climb and shield-hop in PVP’s. So work on Hulk. I understand leaving Hood underleveled seems advantageous, but it puts a big “kick me” sign on your back in PVP.

The “next logical step” for you is not 4*'s.

14

As others have already mentioned I do think it’s in the realm of possibility to attain a 1000 score. At the cost of HP of course and the question then becomes how much HP is it worth to get that score? At what point is it too expensive? When does it make more sense to build up a team first for a lot of HP and then spend less HP on every consecutive attempt at 1000? First of all with 6 4-Stars and 3 Covers I need to wait 54 PvPs before I can finish him. In the meantime I can’t casually get 1000 scores, so I have to choose carefully which events I try it. Wouldn’t it make more sense to spend 7500 now and save a huge chunk of opportunity cost? As long as it’s not sustainable you are basically just buying 4 Star covers for a discounted price.
Spewing HP to get a cover is easy, there is no science in that. Everybody can do it. I would be more inclined to invest into a 4-Star now if I knew nothing is going to happen to him in the near future. Tweaking their numbers to make new 4 Star additions more interesting would be a perfectly reasonable business decision but as you all know their reimbursement policy for nerfs is laughable. I’ll get to sell the char I spent 7500 HP and 420 000 Iso on for like what, 2000 HP and 200 000 Iso?

For the Magneto and Patch tournaments I am personally trying for 1000 because I have them maxed already so it’s a bit easier on the initial cost. But for now and all other events I am struggling to even reach Top25 on a budget since the top is getting thicker and thicker with 4s. Keep in mind not everybody has that amount of HP reserves. I am just not willing to spend my hardearned HP without a safety net. Other people don’t even have the choice because they don’t have that much HP. Somebody with a roughly equal roster couldn’t even compete if he didn’t have HP saved up.

@scottee: That is some solid advice I will definitely take into account. I am currently doing my best to finish covering both BP and Laken, two characters who are VAULTED right now. My efforts have yet to bear fruit, even though I tried so hard to will them into existence that I almost passed out, but I am optimistic that they will against all odds show up in the next PvP.
I’ll get right on levelling my blade so he can tank for my Laken, that is probably the right path to take. Sharp eyes once again, I completely missed that I underlevelled him.
My Loki is 544 and my Hulk is 535, but as you can see I am right now very constrained on Iso so i can’t for the love of all that is holy level them. Maybe I’ll crack a stark salary from a recruit token, fingers crossed.
It shames me deeply but I don’t even have a full roster of 1-Stars levelled, so I am technically not even done with the 0-1 transition.

15

I like your optimism. I am curious how the Patch PvP will shake out sans X-Force. But the biggest problem facing 4* teams is that nowadays it’s not “just” Lady Thor or “just” X-Force. You have to mix it up with both which is just daunting and suicide if the tiles don’t drop your way. Believe me, when I unshield to face that team, I’m loaded on +3 damage, +3 stockpile, and critical boosts.

You and me both. I love the diversity offered in the 3* realm.

16

So here’s how I see it - you want to get to 4* category but you don’t want to sacrifice what the other players with 4*s have, ie. having scaling on the PVE not be out of hand. You also don’t want to risk what others have, ie. that the characters will be nerfed.

So you have to make a choice, because you can’t have your cake and eat it as well in this game. And again if you’re not willing to spend your hard earned HP without a safety net like those that have done so (I spent a LOT of HP using a barely covered XF and Hulk or LCap to hit those 1300 marks to get my XF/TGT covered, and bought 3 covers, 2 black and 1 blue), then you probably should be happy competing at the level at you are currently. Some people had it slightly easier than others, sure (those that were already established 3* players who regularly hit the 1300 mark to cover their XF/TGT, but it still required time and HP spend).

There’s no guarantee any cover won’t be nerfed tomorrow - it’s just the way it is.

17

@loki:
First off you are lumping both points i made into one as if they were inseperately connected, which is not the case. Firstly I said it’s borderline impossible to get the covers you need. And then I said that even if you have those covers you are incentivized to not fully level them.

What a few select people have spent on their roster has no bearing on the argument. You can’t reason that just because somebody spent $ 500 on his account that I should be willing to do so aswell. Because at the other end of the spectrum is somebody who hasn’t spent anything.

A majority of players have gotten their 4* covers with Sentry and now that they are done with that they are using Xforce/4hor. And ever since the Sentry nerf (could Sentry even beat 4hor right now?) it has become absurdly hard to get to 1000 with just 3 Stars. People are saying they are reaching 1000 with Patch/Hulk whatever but god knows how many times they wiped trying. I appreciate them lowering the progression but it wasn’t really for my convenience since everybody was struggling to get to 1300. Demiurge has stated that their goal is to push out new 4s more frequently so why is it harder than ever to earn those? Plus look at how big rosters are right now and now look how many chars are able to reach 1000.

Your stance on nerfing is alarming. Almost all companies offer a refund since when you spend money you have a reasonable expectation of getting what was advertised. If your phone manufacturer forced a mandatory update on you that locked you out of most of the functionality, you would be angry. And rightly so. Buying covers for a character is no different. This may be make-belief money but I spent an unhealthy amount of time on obtaining it, so I consider it as real as any other currency.
Now I have absolutely nothing against nerfing characters but what I do mind is being mocked by the sell price. All the increased sell prices stand in no comparison to the costs of actually buying those covers and are outright insulting at best. It seems that your outlook is that if you spent 10k HP on covers and next week an update rolled around that made them functionally worthless it was bad luck on your part and you should shrug it off. I don’t agree with that.

18

I was a 2* player when Sentry / Hood was doing its thing, facing the wall at 600. I still kept chugging on, doing Patch (which I didn’t have covered until recently) / Hulk, or LCap / Hulk, whatever else I could to progress. Wiping out a LOT, yes. That’s the game if you didn’t start early enough to reap the benefits of the earlier broken characters.

My advice to you since you have the HP and ISO stored, would be to invest in the covers. By the time they get nerfed 2 - 3 seasons down the road you’ll already have an arsenal of other 4* covers to fall back on. Unlike many others you actually have the resources to level up.

19

Not sure why (full discolure I did not check) you did not put this in the Q & A if you want developers to address this. Enough players are in the same position as you that you should have no problem getting the 25 upvotes needed.

20

Personally, I think it’s worth spending up to approximately 50% of the cover cost to try and hit 1000 in PvP, as you get other rewards back along the way in terms of progression, and post match rewards too. I’m in a position fairly similar to you (five maxed 3s, no 4s to speak of). I’ve debated internally a fair bit about building up my 3* team more, before consistently trying to hit 1000 for each PvP, but as you say, the “good” 4s (XF and TGT) come up infrequently due to the number of 4s in rotation, so I’m happy to try for 1000 every time they come up. If anything, you’re in a better position than I, only needing to spend 7500HP, since my X-Force is 2/2/1. So for me, at least, the discounted rate from hitting 1000 in PvP is well worth it, since I effectively need six covers to make him playable.

As you say, it’s risky to attempt to hit 1K with only a 3* team, but I enjoy the attempt, and philosophically, I accept that I will occasionally fail to reach it, despite spending the HP. I will say that it’s easier to hit 1000, than 1300, having done both in the past, so D3 have marginally eased the transition.