Deadpool's Daily & The 4-Star Transition

[David_Hi-Fi_Moore]

Hello everyone,

We wanted to acknowledge that we’ve heard your feedback and have read through the recent comments regarding the new 4-Star Deadpool’s Daily Quest, as well as the 4-Star transition in general.

4-Star Deadpool’s Daily Quest
Many of you have stated that the first fight presented is too hard and the Legendary Token is too difficult to obtain. We will be taking a look at the numbers behind-the-scenes and assessing if the current challenge is where we expected it to be. While we cannot guarantee a change in difficulty will be made, we will certainly look at the numbers and investigate the results. How many players are engaging with and beating the Daily, attempts required across character roster tiers, etc.

The 4-Star Deadpool’s Daily Quest was designed to be significantly challenging. We attempted to communicate this in a number of places before the event went live; in the Silver Surfer announcement thread, the monthly Q&A video (transcript), and IceIX’s posts (example). Obviously, our communication was not clear enough or not concise enough, as many of you stated your assumption that it would not be as difficult as it is.

A couple things to note about the difficulty level (not that it shouldn’t be difficult!)

• • Cyclops is one of the higher damage output characters in the game, right up there with a buffed Juggernaut or Ares. While Steve Rogers could throw one shield at level 270 and take you down, his other two powers aren’t as severe, whereas all three of Cyclops’s powers can cause a loss if you’re not careful/lucky. By definition, Cyclops is going to be a tough customer in a 1v1.
• The opponent currently gets a Team-Up while the player doesn’t. The player not getting Team-Ups was a very late design choice. However, the enemy Team-Ups cannot be disabled without a client change (without disabling Team-Ups for the entire Deadpool’s Daily). This client change is planned, but due to our production pipeline, shouldn’t be expected in the near future.

4-Star Transition
One thing that we believe has gone largely unrealized by many of our players (possibly due to miscommunication, possibly due to simple misunderstanding) is that the Deadpool’s Daily Quest token is not, and was not meant to be, the single way that we intend players to transition towards 4-Star rosters.

The DDQ token is just one of many new ways helping to ease the 4-Star transition, along with methods that are already in the game. We are also making changes in the upcoming season that will help with this transition. As long-time players know, from similar changes to the 3-Star transition, this likely will not be the only changes that will be made (if we find that players are not progressing at a rate that is acceptable given the rest of the player base.)

To summarize recent changes to boost 4-Star output to players:

• • (Season 16) Increased odds of 4-Stars by about 50% in Heroic and Event packs.
• (Season 18) Added Legendary Tokens as progression rewards at the top end of each Story Event.
• (Season 18) Switched in Legendary Tokens as progression rewards at 1300 Progression in each Versus Event.
• (Season 18) Added Legendary Tokens as part of the Deadpool’s Daily Quest.
• (Season 18) Switched in 1 Legendary Token for a 4-Star cover in the Taco Vault.
• (Season 18) Added a Legendary Token for each 40-pack purchased.
• (Season 19) To switch in Legendary Tokens as the top Alliance rewards (replacing the static cover).
• (Season 19) Increasing odds of 4-Stars in Heroic and Event packs.
• (Season 19) Adding a Legendary Token as a progression reward for the Versus season.
• (Upcoming) Introducing a brand new gameplay feature that will assist all players with the 3, 4, and 5-Star transitions.

Just to be clear, we’re also perfectly aware that simply gaining covers isn’t the only issue facing players. There’s also the price of Roster Slots, Iso-8 costs, and a reward structure not ideally optimized for all players trying to push into the 3-Star play area. We don’t have an announcement at the moment on the above issues, but we are very much aware of them and will share information on upcoming changes when they are ready.

Thanks very much for your continued valuable feedback and for reading!

• Hi-Fi & IceIX

[Vhailorx]

Thanks for the feedback demiurge; it is always appreciated!

If I can quibble with a few points from your post, swapping in legendary tokens for previously fixed 4* rewards doesn’t seem to increase the rate of 4* transition at all (arguably, it decreases the rate since 5% of people now get a surfer, though I doubt they are complaining!
).

And on the topic of the 4* DDQ node, as I have said elsewhere, I think the current implementation is fine as a method for established 4* players to get legendary tokens. It’s just not going to help 3* and early 4* players, which is what people were expecting. So hopefully you will address that problem with the upcoming gameplay feature.

Again, thanks for the feedback! I really think it makes the whole MPQ experience better for everyone when the players and the devs can engage directly (and when we don’t flame you. . .).

[system]

@Vhailorx

If I can quibble with a few points from your post, swapping in legendary tokens for previously fixed 4* rewards doesn’t seem to increase the rate of 4* transition at all (arguably, it decreases the rate since 5% of people now get a surfer, though I doubt they are complaining!
).

To add to that, even if this means more 4* covers going out as people may go to 1300 more regularly since the possibility of a 5* may mean people go for this every time, I think it’s ultimately going to result in more “feel bad” moments.

When the 1300 cover is a set cover, people will aim for it if it’s something they need (highly desired 4* get lots more people to 1300 than less desired ones). Now, it’s a gamble but as the most reliable way to get a 5*, a lot of us are going to go to 1300 every event, or most of them. But for those of us with a few fully covered and some medium covered 4*, we’re going to open tokens and get stuff we don’t need. From PVPs where we might have foregone the push to 1300 due to a cover we don’t need (since placement results are usually useless to this portion of the playerbase), we’re going to exert ourselves and get something worthless (ok, 1k iso).

So yes, more 4* covers going out, but it’s going to feel worse.

[TheOncomingStorm]

I think a lot of people forget that we have different tiers of players at different stages of the game. DPDQ has until now been a great supplement for 2and 3 transitioners filling out their rosters. That feature was not as helpful to new players or the most advanced vets.

Likewise, the new 4* feature seems to be geared more towards 4* transitioning players and the most advanced vets. Other players will probably not find this new feature as helpful, but that is just because this game is not set up to skip transitioning stages. In other words, 2* players aren’t intended to skip 3s and go straight to 4s.

Moreover, I remember players with relatively less developed rosters having lots of problems with the 3* wave node. Therefore, I am not sure why players were surprised the same principle held true for the new feature.

Lastly, remember, like they stated above, this was against cyclops. Sure as J2601 pointed out we’ll have to face fist and cage, but other than that, there will be a of cake walks too (c’mon spidey).

[IceIX]

@Vhailorx

If I can quibble with a few points from your post, swapping in legendary tokens for previously fixed 4* rewards doesn’t seem to increase the rate of 4* transition at all (arguably, it decreases the rate since 5% of people now get a surfer, though I doubt they are complaining!
).

And on the topic of the 4* DDQ node, as I have said elsewhere, I think the current implementation is fine as a method for established 4* players to get legendary tokens. It’s just not going to help 3* and early 4* players, which is what people were expecting. So hopefully you will address that problem with the upcoming gameplay feature.

Again, thanks for the feedback! I really think it makes the whole MPQ experience better for everyone when the players and the devs can engage directly (and when we don’t flame you. . .).

For both of those, it really depends on where in the transition you are and how the RNG gods favor you. For players that are just starting out, the token or a set cover makes no difference. Anything’s an upgrade. As you get closer to covering a character, that token starts to gain value though since it means you have a chance to cover a different character instead of that cover being set to the 6th Wolverine Yellow you don’t need. For players that are nearly fully covered, it’s largely a wash, since you were either waiting in hopes that the last Jean Grey Purple would finally be a progression, or that the token would decide to make you lucky. Either way, low odds.

For the DDQ node, for players that haven’t really covered their 4s yet, it’s not very useful. The same can be said of the 3 node for those transitioners too however, as people with low covers on most 3s also tend to have underdeveloped rosters, so that survival node is rough. For players in the transition area (like myself) it’s a likely 4 cover every 5 days with what could be a difficult battle. For people past my stage, it’s the start of the 5* transition.

[system]

@IceIX

Anything’s an upgrade. As you get closer to covering a character, that token starts to gain value though since it means you have a chance to cover a different character instead of that cover being set to the 6th Wolverine Yellow you don’t need. For players that are nearly fully covered, it’s largely a wash, since you were either waiting in hopes that the last Jean Grey Purple would finally be a progression, or that the token would decide to make you lucky. Either way, low odds.

I think the other user was arguing that the difference between it being a Token and it being a Set Cover is that if it’s a Set Cover, you can see “Oh, it’s a 6th Wolverine Yellow, I am not going to push that far”, while it being a Token leads to “I’m going to push super far and hard to get it… and with it I draw… a 6th Wolverine Yellow.”

That is, one RNG saves you the effort of trying, while the new RNG requires that you try, and then potentially fail due to the RNG.

Which would be frustrating, I guess!

[TheOncomingStorm]

@IceIX

@Vhailorx

If I can quibble with a few points from your post, swapping in legendary tokens for previously fixed 4* rewards doesn’t seem to increase the rate of 4* transition at all (arguably, it decreases the rate since 5% of people now get a surfer, though I doubt they are complaining!
).

And on the topic of the 4* DDQ node, as I have said elsewhere, I think the current implementation is fine as a method for established 4* players to get legendary tokens. It’s just not going to help 3* and early 4* players, which is what people were expecting. So hopefully you will address that problem with the upcoming gameplay feature.

Again, thanks for the feedback! I really think it makes the whole MPQ experience better for everyone when the players and the devs can engage directly (and when we don’t flame you. . .).

For both of those, it really depends on where in the transition you are and how the RNG gods favor you. For players that are just starting out, the token or a set cover makes no difference. Anything’s an upgrade. As you get closer to covering a character, that token starts to gain value though since it means you have a chance to cover a different character instead of that cover being set to the 6th Wolverine Yellow you don’t need. For players that are nearly fully covered, it’s largely a wash, since you were either waiting in hopes that the last Jean Grey Purple would finally be a progression, or that the token would decide to make you lucky. Either way, low odds.

For the DDQ node, for players that haven’t really covered their 4s yet, it’s not very useful. The same can be said of the 3 node for those transitioners too however, as people with low covers on most 3s also tend to have underdeveloped rosters, so that survival node is rough. For players in the transition area (like myself) it’s a likely 4 cover every 5 days with what could be a difficult battle. For people past my stage, it’s the start of the 5* transition.

It’s not just that, if I have xforce max covered, I don’t need more of his covers, but he’s my best chance to get new 4* covers in dpdq. In this case, I’m lucky the reward is a token, and not the cover for the character used (like the 3* feature in dpdq ).

Likewise for pvp, if you can hit 1300, would you want a set 4* cover, many of which are probably useless to you, or a chance for a 5* cover? Since you can only get 5s through tokens, I’d argue, the more opportunities to get these tokens, the probability of drawing 5s increase. Therefore, I think the top end vets prefer this reward structure. To be honest, it’s past time some more features are geared towards them.

[Roswulf]

@IceIX

@Vhailorx

For the DDQ node, for players that haven’t really covered their 4s yet, it’s not very useful. The same can be said of the 3 node for those transitioners too however, as people with low covers on most 3s also tend to have underdeveloped rosters, so that survival node is rough. For players in the transition area (like myself) it’s a likely 4 cover every 5 days with what could be a difficult battle. For people past my stage, it’s the start of the 5* transition.

I don’t think that’s true- when DDQ launched, my most covered 3* was a 7-covered Cap. And yet, using almost exclusively 2* characters, I’ve managed to beat DDQ fully every day of its existence. Indeed DDQ has been the central tool in transitioning to what is now a very developed 3* roster (more than half fully covered, most of the rest close).

My most covered 4* when the weekly version of DDQ launched this week was a 7-covered X-Force. Most of my 4 stars have only a single cover. Barring insane luck, the new variant of DDQ is completely useless to me.

Traditional DDQ tests you on the quality of your 2* roster, and rewards you with 3*. The new version tests you on the quality of your 4* roster, and rewards you with 4*. That’s a fundamental difference.

[LegendReborn]

So the 3 to 4 transition is about as good as it will get is what you’re saying. The only thing we don’t have yet currently is the big 50% boost of 2 percent to 3 percent.

This is in no way comparable to the 3 star ddq. You can beat those with pure two star rosters.

Over half of the “improvements” on the list is trading out one reward that those in the 3 to 4 transition hardly ever get for a token. That isn’t improvement.

[ronin_san]

A free 3* cover a day, on a rotation, doesn’t water down the 3* pool. It either slowly bolsters a 2-3* transitioner or provides respectable ISO. As DDQ continues, I find I am doing it for the ISO and tacos.

So if the state of meta is that the whales are / rather HAVE been in a 4-5* transition, why would a random 4* (once in five days) have to be so difficult? It doesn’t NEED to be this hard. And to be frank, 5-6 random 4* covers in a month isn’t going to help me against whales now. It will help me eventually.

Eventually. I JUST got my first kingpin and jean grey covers this week. And I have been playing, oh, a week removed from 700 days. My roster is STRONG. But xfw and IW are my only maxed out 4’s. DDQ’5day won’t make me a threat any time soon.

I guess what I am saying is, i can’t routinely hit 1k to get one 4* cover; never hit 1300. Scaling hurts me bad. DDQ’5…just. Let me at least use a team-up, man. Eesh.

[azmadu]

That’s exactly what happened to me after beating Cyclops, with my token yielding a black xforce cover which I actually needed.

Surfer would have been great but the black was more useful immediately.

[IceIX]

@Roswulf

I don’t think that’s true- when DDQ launched, my most covered 3* was a 6-covered Cap. And yet, using almost exclusively 2* characters, I’ve managed to beat DDQ every day of its existence. Indeed DDQ has been the central tool in transitioning to what is now a very developed 3* roster (more than half fully covered, most of the rest close).

To be honest, you’re very much the exception there. The vast majority of players clearing the 3* node (and improving rosters) are ones that are using 3s to start with. That node is supplementing most player’s 3 roster, not creating it. I mean, definitely grats on the skill needed to pull that victory day after day, just know that most players don’t do that.

[TheOncomingStorm]

@LegendReborn

So the 3 to 4 transition is about as good as it will get is what you’re saying. The only thing we don’t have yet currently is the big 50% boost of 2 percent to 3 percent.

I could be wrong, but I think he said the opposite. I think he said they’ll evaluate and keep looking for ways to assist that transition, especially if enough players were not transitioning or transitioning quickly enough.

[LegendReborn]

Just like they’ve evaluated the three star character balance oh so deeply. Spare me.

[system]

The only thing that really bothered me about the 4* DDQ was that Ice said he could pull it off with most of his roster. Comparing his roster to my own my weaker 4* weren’t too far off of his so I figured it would be challenging but not flat out impossible. I was going in a little too hopeful I think because I saw his roster and thought “his can do it so can mine!” and then my soul was OB and FB into despair.

[Heartburn]

Thanks for your reply, glad you were able to read make it through all those merged threads I gave up 3 or 4 got merged and it started not to make sense.
However, I regret to inform you that I feel that your company’s implementation of 4* DDQ failed to meet my needs as a player in the 3* to 4* transition. I have not been to keen on some of the other recent decision and it is because of these factors I can not guarantee the continued use and support, financially and constructively, as your goals seem to differ to drastically from my own. I am glad you are looking into this issue, but perhaps you might of wanted to get your audience’s opinion before releasing something too far off base, which seem to be a theme with your company. Especially, while your moto while implementation occurs is “This too shall pass”. From a customer’s perspective it feels dismissive and it seems to isolate you more then help your cause.

As an early player and recruiter for this game, of the 20 or so players i brought to this game, it seems I am the last to leave. They left for many different reasons, true healing, stale story events, too much time commitment to make gains, pvp problems, roster slots, nerfs to purchased characters, and even too many pop-up reward notifications from one causal alliancemate. This was my final issue that stopped me from playing. While I am sure your company is swamped, even some of the smallest issues can cause someone to leave.

[dr_tinykittylove]

@IceIX

To be honest, you’re very much the exception there. The vast majority of players clearing the 3* node (and improving rosters) are ones that are using 3s to start with. That node is supplementing most player’s 3 roster, not creating it. I mean, definitely grats on the skill needed to pull that victory day after day, just know that most players don’t do that.

Seriously there aren’ t many people doing it with 2s? It never really struck me as being particularly hard - my noob account went at it with not-quite finished level 60 2s at first, then fully covered level 70s and didn’t have any real problems.

[Billigoat]

@IceIX

@Roswulf

I don’t think that’s true- when DDQ launched, my most covered 3* was a 6-covered Cap. And yet, using almost exclusively 2* characters, I’ve managed to beat DDQ every day of its existence. Indeed DDQ has been the central tool in transitioning to what is now a very developed 3* roster (more than half fully covered, most of the rest close).

To be honest, you’re very much the exception there. The vast majority of players clearing the 3* node (and improving rosters) are ones that are using 3s to start with. That node is supplementing most player’s 3 roster, not creating it. I mean, definitely grats on the skill needed to pull that victory day after day, just know that most players don’t do that.

Wait, for real? That’s really interesting.

I wonder, though… what a single player’s progression of character use is over time. Me and my coworker only had solid 2* characters when DDQ first came out. For the bulk of DDQ’s lifetime we’ve been using 3* characters but we wouldn’t have gotten there if we weren’t able to do the node with only 2* those first two months.

If I remember correctly, my win-rate was about 33% with only 2*
Once Blade got enough covers to add him to the fight, my win-rate increased significantly

[morph3us]

@IceIX

To be honest, you’re very much the exception there. The vast majority of players clearing the 3* node (and improving rosters) are ones that are using 3s to start with. That node is supplementing most player’s 3 roster, not creating it. I mean, definitely grats on the skill needed to pull that victory day after day, just know that most players don’t do that.

That doesn’t actually surprise me too much. The commander of my little Friends In Real Life alliance is a filthy casual (hey there, Commander!), and is stuck in the 2* to 3* transition. He complains quite a bit that he struggles with the Big Enchilada with his maxed 2*s. If you throw some Teisatsu and other hand ninja in there, he folds most of the time, and gives up on the cover for that day.

On another note, thanks David and IceIX for taking the time to acknowledge the issues at hand here. We appreciate the communication. Curious to see what the new event/mechanism to assist transition is now…

[ronin_san]

Does time played factor into scaling? I would swear it does. Friends of mine have much lower time played and two maxed out 4*, but routinely hit easier nodes than me.