Vraska unacceptable loyalty ability

Magic: The Gathering - Puzzle Quest MtGPQ General Discussion
1

So, in was really excited for vraska for a few reasons.

First the colour match up is something we haven’t seen before.

Second her first ability seemed to me to be very relevant after the recent changes to Greg and his now seemingly infallible ability to not only play multiple copies of lock down supports or high cost supports but also having them constantly drop in unmatchable corners.

Third her last ability. A free play cruel reality if you will.

So I bought her after rereading the blog post about her and her abilities to make sure I knew what I was getting.

Well apparently I just got taken.

Her last ability with a very high cost involved has a built in countdown timer.

What you say?

That’s right build up all that mana for a support that self destructs.

Now I will say I only had enough ruins to get her to lvl 47. So possibly at full pop the support doesn’t self destruct.
If that’s the case than maybe I can understand as it’s a good way to push players to lvl up their planeswalkers .

If it doesn’t well then I call tinykitty.

No planeswalkers have self destructing emblems. That’s just feel bad awful design.

If that had been made clear I would never have bought her. After reading the blog post about her which doesn’t say anything about this and in fact extolls the virtue of her abilities I feel cheated.

I will be requesting a refund of my purchase from d3 or android if this is in fact the case.

2

It could be a bug, I would post about it in there too. Thanks for this post, I have already bought a semi-broken Huatli and fully broken Gishath…now another possibly broken premium item is making me re-think spending money on this game in the future.

3

Ajani Unyielding’s ultimate loses a shield each turn and its effectiveness depends on how much energy is on the board when you activate it.

I checked Vraska’s Gorgon’s Gaze ability description and even in the level 1 version it is written plain as day that the ability loses 1 shield at the start of each turn.

I’m sorry you don’t like her and that you feel cheated, but the information was not hidden or misrepresented.

4

I love her loyalty abilities. Thy are really powerful if used right.

Note: @Houdin - you may want to edit that last paragraph in your post. Just saying.

5

Ajani2 ultimate was also self destructing. Just saying since you seem to imply it’s something new.

6

wow, I didn’t even know she was out yet. GUESS WHO IS LATE TO THE PARTY??

7

I think she’s the most balanced PW, mana gains, abilities, life – all of it – that we have ever seen.

I’m actually really, really impressed.

8

Cant wait to get her

…for crystals :stuck_out_tongue:

9

Oktagon need to look at support shields more.
There seem to be things they just don’t get yet.

You set shields based on how long you want it to last and the type of deck it’s going to be played in. The self-destruct is ONLY for things that completely block the game, but they’ve put it on NORMAL supports.

it seems like they think supports are only destroyed by support destruction, but that is NOT true, even in normal play a support loses a shield about every 2 turns.

Hixus has 1 shield because it totally shuts down gameplay and it needs to be dealable with by people who don’t have support destruction. But it’s also cheap, if you play it and it gets destroyed straight away you are disappointed but don’t feel too bad because you haven’t wasted many resources.

Omniscience needs the self-destruct because it has effects before the opponent can react to it. It’s different than most things in that regard.

Part the Waterveil has 10 shields but it’s meant to be used in cascade decks and it’s created so it won’t be destroyed by all the green matches, it’s been thought about.

But…

Aether Vial has 1 shield… On average it costs 7 mana to add 1 mana to 1 card. Even 5 shields would be fine!

Curse of Predation doesn’t need to self destruct at all, it’s just a normal bonus, it’s not killing the gameplay for the other player.

Flutterstorm probably does need the self destruct, but it needs to last until the end of the opponents turn, so at least 4 shields would be appropriate.

Sword point diplomany is very similar to Shadows of the past, Shadows is usable but doesn’t abuse anything at all, it’s fine without self-destructing and so would Sword point diplomacy be.

MOST cards need to lose the self-destruct, it’s something that needs to be careful added to just a few, not applied to so many things like it has been.

With Vraska, it’s meant to be her Ultimate. Cruel reality does NOT self-destruct and people grumble but noone thinks it’s broken, her ultimate is NOT broken either, it doesn’t need the self destruct in the slightest.

Everything else about her looks great, but not this one part. Get rid of self-destruct on most things, add it to 2 or 3 things deliberately chosen, not everything. The number of shields is how you balance most things, not this extra layer.

10

@houdin…I’m a little confused are you complaining that her last ability is too op since it’s a “free cruel reality” or is it too weak since it’s the “only” pw who’s third ability loses shields.

Pick one and argue. When you argue every side ppl tend to not take you seriously.

Btw the pw is amazing and all abilities are useful and always relevant.

11

Only if they don’t understand the point if my post.
I never made any allusion to her third ability being to op. Planeswalkers third abilities wether in pq or paper are supposed to be op. It’s why they have a high cost.

Having her third ability as a more expensive version of cruel reality that self destructs is completely against the reasoning behind planeswalkers top tier ability.

Her first and second abilities are far stronger by comparison because of this and that isn’t how planeswalkers are supposed to be built.

It’s just a very poor design flaw in my opinion and as the poster above states it is perhaps because Oktagon does not have a firm understanding of how supports in magic work or even more so how they work in mtgpq.

12

I suspect that getting to her 3rd ability with the green ramp we have available is not going to be too difficult one well timed rishkarsex will get you too it. if it falls on a black gem even better.

AJ2 ult played correctly completely locks your opponent out of the game and needs to count down,

While Vraska’s won’t completely lock your opponent combine it with either cruel reality and blight caster you have a very potent way to kill creatures and deal direct damage to your opponent.

13

Her first ability is killer, the other 2 are meh at best.
In that way she’s simular to bolas and I don’t hear complaints about him.

What I do dislike about vraska is that she is supposed to be the pirate plainwalker.. and the only pirates that might be close to playable are all red.

14

This is a case of the disconnect between MtG and MTGPQ in the handling of multicolor cards/walkers. In paper it’s easy to throw Vraska in a BR deck.
That said, as a generic BG walker she is very playable.

15

imagine the uproar if they had made her ult 30: target players life total becomes 1

16

I complain about Bolas.

The first ability being -5/-5 would be far more balanced than destroy. It’s his first ability and has no drawback. Ob’s destroy is 2nd and at least costs life.

17

Her support shrinks ALL CREATURES the opponent controls not just the first. That’s why it eventually goes away, if not it would take over the game.
I like her, can’t wait for her to hit the vault for crystals.
And there are some interesting agro pirates in black.

18

It does say, quite clearly loses 1 shield. In paper this would be a read-the-code issue. Since we’re family friendly I suppose it’s a rttkc issue. You didn’t get got .You got eager. I can still understand why you’re bummed, but I really don’t think this is a big deal .We’re ignoring all of the pros to complain about an ability that probably won’t even matter . Something is probably going sideways if you need more than 5 turns to win after popping your ultimate

//Removed Profanity -Brigby

19

If you’re facing 3 10/10s it won’t save you, but against a zoo deck that’s a nasty ability. Especially if you build around it. And the second ability can be built for as well.

20

It does seem like Oktagon has a totally different mindset as to whether PWs 3rd abilities are really “ultimates” or just, y’know, expensive.

There are a number of other planeswalkers whose 3rd ability is an insanely powerful support (Jace 2, Ob Nix, Dovin, Koth…) but the only one whose support self-destructs is Ajani 2 since his literally locks down the game all by itself. Vraska’s doesn’t lock down the game as hard as Demonic Pact does, and Demonic Pact doesn’t self-destruct, so I don’t really see much reason for the self-destruct tbh, especially at 24 loyalty which I believe makes it one of the most expensive 3rd abilities in the game.

That said, I’d be super-excited for a black/green planeswalker even if she had literally no abilities; the fact that her first ability is awesome and her 2nd could occasionally be useful (though it seems a little overcosted) makes her more than good enough for me.