A breakdown of the proposed Hitpoint Changes

Marvel Puzzle Quest MPQ General Discussion
1

Hitpoint Changes for 3 Characters*

[5,100 → 7,565] (48% Increase) |1 of 37|

  • Storm

[5,950 → 8,075] (36% Increase) |4 of 37|

  • Black Widow
  • Falcon
  • Human Torch
  • Mystique

[6,800 → 8,670] (28% Increase) |12 of 37|

  • Beast
  • Blade
  • Daredevil
  • Deadpool
  • Doctor Octopus
  • Kamala Khan
  • Magneto
  • Psylocke
  • Punisher
  • Quicksilver
  • Spider-Man
  • Squirrel Girl

[7,650 → 9,265] (21% Increase) |1 of 37|

  • Cyclops

[8,500 → 9,690] (14% Increase) |7 of 37|

  • Black Panther
  • Captain America
  • Captain Marvel
  • Doctor Doom
  • Gamora
  • Iron Man
  • Luke Cage

[10,200 → 10,710] (14% Increase) |5 of 37|

  • Colossus
  • Ragnarok
  • Rocket & Groot
  • Sentry
  • She-Hulk

(Did not receive an HP Buff) |7 of 37|

[spoiler]Of the 37 total 3* characters, these 7 were the only ones that did not receive a health buff. Hulk was the only character in his health class so there is no data to say where he would have been buffed to.

  • Daken (-28%)
  • Hood (-48%)
  • Hulk (?)
  • Iron Fist (-21%)
  • Loki (-36%)
  • Thor (-5%)
  • Wolverine (-28%)

[/spoiler]

Percentage Differences Between HP Tiers
5,100 → 7,565

[spoiler]Old (5,100)

  • 5,950 is 17% Higher
  • 6,800 is 33% Higher
  • 7,650 is 50% Higher
  • 8,500 is 67% Higher
  • 10,200 is 100% Higher

New (7,565)

  • 8,075 is 7% Higher (10% difference)
  • 8,670 is 15% Higher (19% difference)
  • 9,265 is 22% Higher (28% difference)
  • 9,690 is 28% Higher (39% difference)
  • 10,710 is 42% Higher (58% difference)

[/spoiler]
5,950 → 8,075

[spoiler]Old (5,950)

  • 6,800 is 14% Higher
  • 7,650 is 29% Higher
  • 8,500 is 43% Higher
  • 10,200 is 71% Higher

New (8,075)

  • 8,670 is 7% Higher (7% difference)
  • 9,265 is 15% Higher (14% difference)
  • 9,690 is 20% Higher (23% difference)
  • 10,710 is 33% Higher (39% difference)

[/spoiler]
6,800 → 8,670

[spoiler]Old (6,800)

  • 7,650 is 13% Higher
  • 8,500 is 25% Higher
  • 10,200 is 50% Higher

New (8,670)

  • 9,265 is 7% Higher (6% difference)
  • 9,690 is 12% Higher (13% difference)
  • 10,710 is 24% Higher (26% difference)

[/spoiler]
7,650 → 9,265

[spoiler]Old (7,650)

  • 8,500 is 11% Higher
  • 10,200 is 33% Higher

New (9,265)

  • 9,690 is 5% Higher (7% difference)
  • 10,710 is 16% Higher (18% difference)

[/spoiler]
8,500 → 9,690

[spoiler]Old (8,500)

  • 10,200 is 20% Higher

New ( 9,690)

  • 10,710 is 11% Higher (9% difference)

[/spoiler]

Regarding the Poor Bastards that weren’t buffed with the rest of their buddies

Let’s look at Hood first who is most affected by missing the buff train

Hood and Storm used to be the same HP class, but now she sits at a health 7,565 while Hood is still chilling at 5,100. This means that Storm suddenly has 48% more hitpoints than her former hp tier mate. It doesn’t get better for him after that

[spoiler]Previously Hood’s health differences vs other tiers looked like this:

  • 17% deficit vs Human Torch’s tier
  • 33% deficit vs “Default” tier
  • 50% deficit vs "Cyclops and Iron Fist’s “Weird-No-Reason-for-their-HP-to-be-Different-than-Default” tier
  • 67% deficit vs “Iron Man” tier
  • 100% deficit vs “Fat Thor” tier

Now it looks like this:

  • 48% deficit vs his old tier (48% Difference)
  • 58% deficit vs Human Torch’s tier (42% Difference)
  • 70% deficit vs “Default” tier (37% Difference)
  • 82% deficit vs "Cyclops and Iron Fist’s tier (32% Difference)
  • 90% deficit vs “Iron Man” tier (23% Difference)
  • 110% deficit vs “Fat Thor” tier (10% Difference)

[/spoiler]

So in a nutshell, 17 of the 30 3* characters that were buffed now have at least an extra 37% health buffer vs the Hood.

Loki, who also missed the buff train, is being hit second hardest by these changes. Loki formerly had a 17% bigger health pool over 3* Storm and now enjoys a 27% deficit. Bottom line, Demiurge is clearly stating that they’re not happy with how powerful the premiere AP drainers are.

The true healing dynamic duo, Daken and Wolverine, are also getting the ninja nerf non-buff. Their 33% bigger health pool vs Storm has become an 11% deficit. Magneto, a former tier-mate, now enjoys a 28% larger health pool.

TL;DR: This “buff” is more about D3miurge nerfing AP Stealing and True Healing than buffing other characters.

P.s. I uploaded my spreadsheet napkin math stuff to google docs if anyone wants to have it to mess around with/read on the toilet here.

551×549 79.2 KB

2

I don’t get why wolverine got shafted. I mean he had relatively low health already and only was durable due to the true healing…now he’s got less health than most of the other 3* with the exception of the really squishy ones…Isn’t Wolverine supposed to be nearly unkillable? Now even guys without superpowers outshine him in the health department. And saying he’s got healing isn’t really an argument to me since it’s one of this 3 powers, he shouldn’t be punished for having them. or do you give guys a match make malus because they have hard-hitting powers? I think not.

They must really hate wolverine since XF got the same treatment (as if the nerf wasn’t enough). Now, unless I forgot somebody, he has the least health of all the 4* with the exception of the old, crippled guy?

3

If your main intention was to nerf a handful of characters why not just reduce their HP and leave everyone else mostly untouched. I’m extremely worried that all this higher health we’ll be seeing will make PvP and PvE matches take 20-25% longer on average. I mean, certain characters needed a health buff, but the entire 3* field has received an average of 18% more health. The 4* heroes received a 28% health buff on average.

If I have to spend 20-25% more time playing this game to get the exact same rewards I used to get than I don’t care what the hell you call it, it’s a nerf to EVERYONE THAT PLAYS THIS GAME.

I’m begging you Devs, please don’t nerf any more of my free time.

4

The two points which interest me the most are:

  1. AXM Wolverine did receive a health boost, even though Patch and XForce did not.
  2. Ragnarok did receive a health boost, even though Thor did not. (They’re making such developments in the robot-clone sciences these days!)
5

An argument can be made that Loki and Hood in particular have both warped the game when they are on a team.

Hood has for a long time made things pretty hectic and requires the opponent to obtain AP in a certain way to not get it stolen. This also depends highly on that teams stronger color and if obtaining said AP would be detrimental to you. Though he can also warp Goon fights in PvE as well if you face certain opponents. With the reduction in boosts, this can be felt even more as that boost you thought you were so clever in bringing in to help you out just got drained during the second turn devaluing it.

Loki on the other had forces you to think about those Match 4’s and 5’s. Nothing is worse that hitting a Match 4 of a color you needed and have it all stolen and then some two turns later cause you couldn’t stop those tiles. This can get particularly crazy during the game in which you can bait the AI to take a Match 4 for you to take it back later. I’ve done it many time as I’m sure many others have as well. That’s up to 8 free AP you just gained for yourself because you let the AI match it. Not to mention he has Illusions which have caused me to see three back to back X-Force activations within the first 5 turns. He has crazy cascade potential and it’s very cheap.

Do I find that these two not receiving HP buffs are problem? No. Do I see it changing how often they will be seen? No. HP buffs on these two characters would have done nothing more then to hate your very existence if they took even longer to kill. Keep in mind that these HP buffs did not come with match/power damage buffs universally either. So unlike the level shift update, it will take an higher average of matches to kill these buffed characters and may give them the opportunity to actually fire off their skills (Storm, I’m look at your green, girl…).

6

Well, they buffed 2* Wolverine’s health. I guess they realize his healing power is nearly worthless…

What gets me is that this HP change more than just about any other change they’ve ever made is gigantically meta shaking. They’ve weakened all the tanks in the game (8,500hp+) by giving them less of an increase percentage wise vs the rest of the field. They’ve made characters with super high damage output significantly better by taking away their main weakness. For example, Human Torch was already solidly middle tier, and was only hindered by a low health pool. He not only reduced the gap between his health pool and the default tier by 7%. Just the mere fact that he has an extra 36% hp means you’re almost definitely going to eat a fireball to the face before you can burst him down. Punisher gets a big boost as well, since with many targets with bigger health pools, his Retribution gets buffed as well. Plus, he and Psylocke are going to be able to do a ton of damage with their quick nukes now that they have an extra 28% health. Plus, what about the characters that were already tier 1/1.5 AND got a health buff (I’m looking at you Blade and Magneto). I’m going on record that Blade will be fun-balanced sooner or later. He has a wicked passive plus an AP drain AND he has fast regen out of combat.

The next few PvPs are going to be extremely volatile.

7

Thanks for putting the list together. Its nice information to have.

48% HP increase for LStorm. Now aren’t we all glad that whenever a random 3* cover is put up as a reward in PVE progression for a 4* event or during off season PVP, it was always LStorm? Think the devs really love her, maybe not as much as they love Moonstone but it seems pretty close.

8

1 - AXM Wolverine’s a shell of his former 2 star self and has been severely outclassed by other 2* options.
2 - I mean…Thor gets shafted out of a …510 point health boost. I feel like that’s just the devs making a statement that they acknowledge that he’s more powerful than they wish he was.

9

Also would like to point out that these changes are going into effect on the 17th. THE 17th! Do you know what’s also happening on the 17th? I frigging Thor PvP. Dear God.

10

I disagree with your takeaway. This is really another shield-hopping nerf. The devs are hell-bent on extending matches. Limiting AP stealing is just another means to that end.

11

I don’t see how my gaming experience could improve by having to spend more time on the game to get the same rewards.

12

This “buff” is more about D3miurge nerfing AP Stealing and True Healing than buffing other characters.
Objectively speaking…this is GREAT!

If you look where the games balance issues lie you’ll immediately notice it’s with these two features…ap steal and true healing. Characters like Daken, Patch and XF receive WAY more regular use than other characters. I’d imagine Groot does as well for newer players who don’t have the alternative old fogey’s yet. It’s clear that OBW, Loki and Hood completely dominate all aspects of this game as well.

If your goal is to create a more balanced game play experience with better roster viability than these features need to be made less appealing. The health change is one way to address that without directly nerfing the characters. This clearly matches the vision that D3 has for the game.

Note: I very much dread the health change because of how much of a slog the game may turn into. I think it takes things too far and would rather see the same goal accomplished by another means.

I would LOVE to see D3 address the other end of the feature spectrum as well…
Protect Tiles.

Protect Tiles only serve to address match damage. Something that makes a player ‘feel’ good but ultimately accomplishes very little in the match as a whole since characters are primarily downed by skill usage. If D3 wants to make characters like spidey and the new IW appealing they need to change the functionality of protect tiles.

I propose that protect tiles be functionally changed to pulse an AoE true healing effect every turn they remain on the board rather than reduce damage. True healing is a valuable defensive resource. Preventing minor amounts of damage while sustaining the pain throughout battles is not.

13

side note: we ought to call this “Health Changes” as we already use HP to refer to Hero Point for this game.

14

well, with how recently they have been updating, if there starts to be a problem they can tweak the characters up or down.

The true healers and AP stealers will need some updates before you could increase their health, but remember the one skill that made these guys not much of an issue anymore was greenflag.png
X-Force. Now that that skill has been nerfed, it won’t be as easy to take out Hood and Loki, Human Torch is now probably the best option to obliterating these guys quickly.

Will I also think Patch and Daken should have gotten a buff, if you look at how much health they gain during a match, lets say 2K, well then their hitpoints are really 8800 or more

15

Agreed. Match damage is going to mean very little in the new game. Along that line of thinking, I think they should take another look at Colossus. In theory, he has an ability that does exactly what you want. It protects against ability damage and match damage. I would like more characters that do what he does.

Unfortunatly, now that he has a similar hit point pool relative to other characters, his ability is way underpowered. I would up his ability to protect 75% of the damage at lvl 5 and 50% at lvl 3. An opponent can kill the CD tile or wait it out, after all.

How about a “reflect tile?” Something that sends back a % of all damage?

16

Wolverine, daken, hood and loki got shafted becuase those are top end pvp players and D3 has made it very clear that there must be a leveling, and anyone who earned thier “advantage” by putting in the time, effort, and / or money to win good covers will be screwed over becuase new players need a walk in the park to get to elite level.

17

why not give every charecter “true healing” for no reason to make everything “more fair” while we are at it.

18

I am totally against this friggin non sense, more health means more time per match = more time playing, I am not against fixing a few that needed health boost ( ex: grey suit ), but this is wrong and useless. This game is a mess and they keep messing this thing up as usual.
Better buy extra battery’s for your phone guys, this is suppose to be mobile game !! icon_evil.gif

19

What’s up with 2* Storm - no health buff???
Now - I actually think these health buff’s in general go waaaaaay to far.
I would have much preferred buffing a few of the lower health class 3* (GSBW, Mohawk, etc) and lower health class 4* (IW) characters only.

Or, doing nothing to health would have been INFINITELY preferable to this mess they are about to inflict upon us all.

But, if the new health tiers are happening, I for the life of me can’t understand leaving out 2* Storm. Is it because of her Yellow ability maybe? Do the dev’s think we WANT her to lose health so it triggers her Yellow passive? Or was it a simple oversight on their part. Or something worse…?

20

I had everyone sitting at level 127 a few seasons back. I’ve been moving them to 140, true healers first. And I moved a few to 166: obviously the “best” characters first. I know D3 was looking at nerfing the best characters, but it’s like they just wanted to nerf my roster. My best characters:

250 X-force: knocked unconscious with nerf bat.
166 Hood: I’ve been meaning to show how he’s all alone on an island, excellent break-down Meto5000.
166 Loki: Yep, AP denial was good; this was a way to “nerf” them without outright admitting mistake.
166 Hulk: No upgrade for you!
166 Thor: No upgrade for you! (And probably not needed)
166 DD: Hey, a character that I have maxed that wasn’t screwed over!
153 Daken: Seriously, had JUST moved him up from 140 before this announcement was made.
140 Patch: Was my next planned 166 since X-F nerf was likely coming, but now he got the stealth nerf also…

Oh, and that “Everything will cost less to level now - at lower levels!” plan? I have 12x 140’s and 11x 127’s, tried even leveling to keep multiples playable: which they were until MMR change made it impossible to play anyone but best team. And now apparently I won’t get the benefit of cheaper leveling, no word of any ISO refunds of course…

Seriously, if D3 looked at my roster and said: 'what can we do to make this kind of player take the biggest hit?", I’m not sure they could have done a much better job on wiping out much of the progression I’ve made over the past year with the changes that have happened in unlucky season 13.

Excellent job on OP, the hitpoint changes are absolutely an attempt to under-the-table “nerf” most of the best characters in the game. Now we’ll have incredibly long matches every single time: hard times in PVE, difficult shield-hops in PVP, woe to those who don’t buy health packs! Oh wait, I’ve never done that either…