The business of third powers for villians and balance

[wirius]

So I know some people here are stoked for a third power to some of the villians, or major buffs for characters. However, do not forget, MPQ is free to play.

So what does that mean? That means that their revenue is not a consistent stream based on players, but based on a few donations here and there, and a massive amount from whales (People who spend hundreds or thousands of dollars). That means that while you want a fun game, (and they do!), the reality is, a lot of their development decisions have to be concerned with return on investment if they want to stay in business.

So lets look at three things the community wants: 3rd power for villians, buffing old characters, and nerfing overpowered characters

1. 3rd power for villians

 The old 2 star villians are very old characters by this point, and as such, many people already have them.  Where does d3 make money on this?  They could either spend the development budget and time on a 3 color covers that no one has, and have people buy covers, packs, and iso...or sell far less by rebalancing a character and adding a 3rd cover.  Some may say, "But Daken!"  Well, they released a NEW Daken, and rebuffed the old one.  If they're going to rebalance, its probably going to be while releasing a lazy version as well.  Otherwise, I can't see the business sense in it.  After all, no one is going to leave if they don't add third covers.

2. Buffing old characters

 Again, how the game makes its money is people buying iso, cover packs, character covers, and shields.  Where is there money in buffing old characters a large percentage of the population has?  Again, this is usually a poor return on investment.   You might say, "But Hawkeye!"  One abiliity was changed, and I think this was to help people in the two's transition.  You want to keep people through the 2's so that way they'll play for 3's, and spend money on the game.  This is also why X-Force was buffed.  He's incredibly hard to get, and a powerful 4 like fury probably gained them a bit more revenue.  I'm sure the X-Force buff caused more people to buy covers, and net D3 some well earned cash.

3. Nerfing overpowered characters

 I've seen this community, and people who have their overpowered characters are weak little whiners who have their ego caught up in being overpowered.  They'll throw an F'n FIT.  When the Rag nerf hit, people downvoted the game to oblivion, flooded asking for refunds, and generally behaved WORSE than children.  So where is the profit for D3?  Unless overpowered characters are ACTIVELY harming the game, causing people to quit, or causing people to NOT buy new characters etc., then there is no financial incentive for D3 to do so.

 If anything, Sentry is a gold mine.  He allows shield hopping up to the 1300's and beyond.  People are popping money on shields like mad.  Why would D3 shoot their own foot?  Until Sentry stops people from buying shields or anything else, they'll ride that money train for as long as possible.

TLDR: Remember guys, this is a free to play game, not a monthly service. Always expect D3 to make the game fun, but always in the direction of them making the most money in return for their time investment. Also, I love this game, and do not think they are money grubbing greedy bastards. =D

[system]

I never looked at things this way, but reading your post, I can tell you something :

I agree to your propositions, and as a big whale, I would be happy

Thing is, whatever they do, the whales will buy them…

[wirius]

Thanks Arktos! And I mean that, guys like you keep the game afloat so guys like me can play them. I’ve had many a fun hour and hope to have many more.

[system]

This is true, but there are also monitary gains to be made in improving the game, however the revenue coming from these are less direct.
you have outlined things like new character=people buying packs/covers/iso.
what is important to remember, however, is customer satisfaction is big in business, and can lead to revenue.
this looks like: balanced characters=more characters needed=more cover/packs/iso bought
this also looks like: balanced characters=more people have a chance to win=more people drop money on shield hopping
Another example of this is: balanced characters=less people frustrated=more people playing&buying
all i’m saying is that there are ways to gain profits off of improving the game, buffing/nerfing characters, and giving a third power to those characters.

[system]

Another thing to look at is how the game looks. New players will come in and see characters that just plain stink. They may buy HP and ISO and level up IM40. Then they get stomped and wonder why IM40 even exists.

Was the character decent at one time? → Why hasn’t it been fixed? → Do the developers care? → Man did I just spend X amount of dollars on a crap character the devs dont care about? Should I study pages and pages of forum posts so I can learn about a F2P meta game? → Hey look, I just found about a more balanced F2P game that doesn’t require a thesis on meta-gaming. → Delete MPQ

This is exaggerated obviously, but how much money do they lose by not keeping the game balanced? I don’t know, but these are things I think about at night when I can’t sleep. I can’t sleep because I think about MPQ. Vicious cycle.

[GothicKratos]

@Paintsville

Another thing to look at is how the game looks. New players will come in and see characters that just plain stink. They may buy HP and ISO and level up IM40. Then they get stomped and wonder why IM40 even exists.

Was the character decent at one time? → Why hasn’t it been fixed? → Do the developers care? → Man did I just spend X amount of dollars on a crap character the devs dont care about? Should I study pages and pages of forum posts so I can learn about a F2P meta game? → Hey look, I just found about a more balanced F2P game that doesn’t require a thesis on meta-gaming. → Delete MPQ

This is exaggerated obviously, but how much money do they lose by not keeping the game balanced? I don’t know, but these are things I think about at night when I can’t sleep. I can’t sleep because I think about MPQ. Vicious cycle.

I’m curious as to how many people even care about “competitive” MPQ (i.e. topping in events). It always brings me back to games like Call of Duty and League of Legends, which have rich metagames, but the largest amount of the playerbase could care less. They just enjoy the game as it comes in the tin and go with it. Some people start to care about the metagame and being “successful”, but I feel like the largest majority do not. People like winning, but in games with MMR, you don’t have to be ‘MLG Status’, so to speak, to win some games.

Just some food for thought - this is coming from someone with an extensive competitive gaming background - so I understand your perspective, but I’m not really sure if it’s the majority perspective. Especially so considering that the vast majority of players are mobile players — most mobile games are compulsive plays for the average Joe.

[Nellyson]

@GothicKratos

@Paintsville

Another thing to look at is how the game looks. New players will come in and see characters that just plain stink. They may buy HP and ISO and level up IM40. Then they get stomped and wonder why IM40 even exists.

Was the character decent at one time? → Why hasn’t it been fixed? → Do the developers care? → Man did I just spend X amount of dollars on a crap character the devs dont care about? Should I study pages and pages of forum posts so I can learn about a F2P meta game? → Hey look, I just found about a more balanced F2P game that doesn’t require a thesis on meta-gaming. → Delete MPQ

This is exaggerated obviously, but how much money do they lose by not keeping the game balanced? I don’t know, but these are things I think about at night when I can’t sleep. I can’t sleep because I think about MPQ. Vicious cycle.

I’m curious as to how many people even care about “competitive” MPQ (i.e. topping in events). It always brings me back to games like Call of Duty and League of Legends, which have rich metagames, but the largest amount of the playerbase could care less. They just enjoy the game as it comes in the tin and go with it. Some people start to care about the metagame and being “successful”, but I feel like the largest majority do not. People like winning, but in games with MMR, you don’t have to be ‘MLG Status’, so to speak, to win some games.

Just some food for thought - this is coming from someone with an extensive competitive gaming background - so I understand your perspective, but I’m not really sure if it’s the majority perspective. Especially so considering that the vast majority of players are mobile players — most mobile games are compulsive plays for the average Joe.

I am one of those mobile players and I get competitive every now and then. Currently, I’m competitive. I haven’t spent money on characters, but I have spent
on roster spots and alliance spots. So while I haven’t invested a ton of money, I have put my share in. And for the most part, I want to say there aren’t that many that care about the competitive aspect. It just needs to be a fun game. My girlfriend has currently just started this game, one that she loves to give me the evil eye for playing, so I’m stoked that she can easily enjoy it. Obviously, she won’t be competitive. So I want to agree with Kratos. Most just want to win their fights, not necessarily take first, or even top 100.

[Pylgrim]

@wirius

So I know some people here are stoked for a third power to some of the villians, or major buffs for characters. However, do not forget, MPQ is free to play.

So what does that mean? That means that their revenue is not a consistent stream based on players, but based on a few donations here and there, and a massive amount from whales (People who spend hundreds or thousands of dollars). That means that while you want a fun game, (and they do!), the reality is, a lot of their development decisions have to be concerned with return on investment if they want to stay in business.

So lets look at three things the community wants: 3rd power for villians, buffing old characters, and nerfing overpowered characters

1. 3rd power for villians

 The old 2 star villians are very old characters by this point, and as such, many people already have them.  Where does d3 make money on this?  They could either spend the development budget and time on a 3 color covers that no one has, and have people buy covers, packs, and iso...or sell far less by rebalancing a character and adding a 3rd cover.  Some may say, "But Daken!"  Well, they released a NEW Daken, and rebuffed the old one.  If they're going to rebalance, its probably going to be while releasing a lazy version as well.  Otherwise, I can't see the business sense in it.  After all, no one is going to leave if they don't add third covers.

2. Buffing old characters

 Again, how the game makes its money is people buying iso, cover packs, character covers, and shields.  Where is there money in buffing old characters a large percentage of the population has?  Again, this is usually a poor return on investment.   You might say, "But Hawkeye!"  One abiliity was changed, and I think this was to help people in the two's transition.  You want to keep people through the 2's so that way they'll play for 3's, and spend money on the game.  This is also why X-Force was buffed.  He's incredibly hard to get, and a powerful 4 like fury probably gained them a bit more revenue.  I'm sure the X-Force buff caused more people to buy covers, and net D3 some well earned cash.

3. Nerfing overpowered characters

 I've seen this community, and people who have their overpowered characters are weak little whiners who have their ego caught up in being overpowered.  They'll throw an F'n FIT.  When the Rag nerf hit, people downvoted the game to oblivion, flooded asking for refunds, and generally behaved WORSE than children.  So where is the profit for D3?  Unless overpowered characters are ACTIVELY harming the game, causing people to quit, or causing people to NOT buy new characters etc., then there is no financial incentive for D3 to do so.

 If anything, Sentry is a gold mine.  He allows shield hopping up to the 1300's and beyond.  People are popping money on shields like mad.  Why would D3 shoot their own foot?  Until Sentry stops people from buying shields or anything else, they'll ride that money train for as long as possible.

TLDR: Remember guys, this is a free to play game, not a monthly service. Always expect D3 to make the game fun, but always in the direction of them making the most money in return for their time investment. Also, I love this game, and do not think they are money grubbing greedy bastards. =D

Your arguments seem to pivot on the flawed premise that most of the playerbase are veterans with an almost full roster and as such, it’s not a valuable proposition to improve the things they already have but to entice them with new ones. But the truth is that long-standing games that are continuously developed need to focus a bigger part of their efforts attracting new players. A “veteran” is a player that already has spent money, already has played tons and is slowly getting older. i.e. is more likely to drop the game at any time or at least stop investing money on it. The best consumers for a product like this are the ones that haven’t started using it yet! They have a whole playing-life ahead of them!

As another poster commented, what will these players think if the first 3* they open is Daredevil, then spend lots of effort and maybe money leveling him up just to eventually realise that he’s worthless? There’s little way to control which characters your new players will find first besides rarity. Why would you want to risk their first impression being extremely lackluster or ineffectual? Why allow such extremes in powers that swingy chance means that you can either get an absurdly powerful character and easily climb your way through the game, or get a ridiculously weak character with few skills that will make your ascension slow and painful?

I am actually kind of worried that your narrow, idealistic perspective on the game is shared by the developers and that’s why we get showered in new characters while the internal balance gets more and more skewed.

[wirius]

@Pylgrim

@wirius

So I know some people here are stoked for a third power to some of the villians, or major buffs for characters. However, do not forget, MPQ is free to play.

So what does that mean? That means that their revenue is not a consistent stream based on players, but based on a few donations here and there, and a massive amount from whales (People who spend hundreds or thousands of dollars). That means that while you want a fun game, (and they do!), the reality is, a lot of their development decisions have to be concerned with return on investment if they want to stay in business.

So lets look at three things the community wants: 3rd power for villians, buffing old characters, and nerfing overpowered characters

1. 3rd power for villians

 The old 2 star villians are very old characters by this point, and as such, many people already have them.  Where does d3 make money on this?  They could either spend the development budget and time on a 3 color covers that no one has, and have people buy covers, packs, and iso...or sell far less by rebalancing a character and adding a 3rd cover.  Some may say, "But Daken!"  Well, they released a NEW Daken, and rebuffed the old one.  If they're going to rebalance, its probably going to be while releasing a lazy version as well.  Otherwise, I can't see the business sense in it.  After all, no one is going to leave if they don't add third covers.

2. Buffing old characters

 Again, how the game makes its money is people buying iso, cover packs, character covers, and shields.  Where is there money in buffing old characters a large percentage of the population has?  Again, this is usually a poor return on investment.   You might say, "But Hawkeye!"  One abiliity was changed, and I think this was to help people in the two's transition.  You want to keep people through the 2's so that way they'll play for 3's, and spend money on the game.  This is also why X-Force was buffed.  He's incredibly hard to get, and a powerful 4 like fury probably gained them a bit more revenue.  I'm sure the X-Force buff caused more people to buy covers, and net D3 some well earned cash.

3. Nerfing overpowered characters

 I've seen this community, and people who have their overpowered characters are weak little whiners who have their ego caught up in being overpowered.  They'll throw an F'n FIT.  When the Rag nerf hit, people downvoted the game to oblivion, flooded asking for refunds, and generally behaved WORSE than children.  So where is the profit for D3?  Unless overpowered characters are ACTIVELY harming the game, causing people to quit, or causing people to NOT buy new characters etc., then there is no financial incentive for D3 to do so.

 If anything, Sentry is a gold mine.  He allows shield hopping up to the 1300's and beyond.  People are popping money on shields like mad.  Why would D3 shoot their own foot?  Until Sentry stops people from buying shields or anything else, they'll ride that money train for as long as possible.

TLDR: Remember guys, this is a free to play game, not a monthly service. Always expect D3 to make the game fun, but always in the direction of them making the most money in return for their time investment. Also, I love this game, and do not think they are money grubbing greedy bastards. =D

Your arguments seem to pivot on the flawed argument that most of the playerbase are veterans with an almost full roster and as such, it’s not a valuable proposition to improve the things they already have but to entice them with new ones. But the truth is that long-standing games that are continuously developed need to focus a bigger part of their efforts attracting new players. A “veteran” is a player that already has spent money, already has played tons and is slowly getting older. i.e. is more likely to drop the game at any time or at least stop investing money on it. The best consumers for a product like this are the ones that haven’t started using it yet! They have a whole playing-life ahead of them!

As another poster commented, what will these players think if the first 3* they open is Daredevil, then spend lots of effort and maybe money leveling him up just to eventually realise that he’s worthless? There’s little way to control which characters your new players will find first besides rarity. Why would you want to risk their first impression being extremely lackluster or ineffectual? Why allow such extremes in powers that swingy chance means that you can either get an absurdly powerful character and easily climb your way through the game, or get a ridiculously weak character with few skills that will make your ascension slow and painful?

I am actually kind of worried that your narrow, idealistic perspective on the game is shared by the developers and that’s why we get showered in new characters while the internal balance gets more and more skewed.

It really all depends on their metrics. At this point, they have a faithful playerbase that sinks money any time a new champion comes out. Those are the people that fund the game, they are who the developers will cater too.

“Half of Mobile Games Money Comes From 0.15 Percent of Players” http://recode.net/2014/02/26/a-long-tai … f-players/

As such, that’s pretty much the player base you focus on. I’m not trying to have an idealistic perspective, but a realistic one. Idealistically, they would be able to spend all the time and resources balancing the game and have the best returns on investment. Realistically, that doesn’t seem to be the case in free to play games. The game is very fun for new players, and even transitioning 2’s. I would think they know what they’re doing considering this is a mobile game that has existed over a year.

The shelf life for mobile games typically isn’t very long. Half of apps lose their main user base after 3 months. http://www.flurry.com/bid/108904/Benchm … obile-Apps

So I would say they know pretty well what they’re doing, and I thought it might be nice to point out to some that what you should expect the developers to focus in a free to play model is a little different then you subscription, or even purchased games.