So? It’s there for me to choose, so I choose that. Less stress and not that much fuss about placement. The point system is horrible for my play style. And I often leave my terrible-on-defence team out there for others to pound. Win-win on my book. 
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OK, so then what’s your plan when you see Jugger/Sam knowing that after you make your first tile move you are going to get creamed with AoE damage and endless strike tiles. If not Jugger/Sam then OR/May or MBaku/May and so on. Supports are the ONLY chance you have against passive damage dealers who wreck your team by turn 2 or 3 so that even if you win you need 3 health packs (which doesn’t feel like a win).
KGB
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The dominant narrative around here (and I’m sure it’s the same on Discord and Line and Reddit or whatever) is that the game is dying, and that narrative existed way before this week. Player counts are “cratering” and revenues are down massively, falling every month.
If you buy that, then the only thing they can’t do is keep everything the same forever. That just leads to a slow death by attrition. They’re taking a big swing because they don’t have a choice. Continuing to cater to entrenched veterans just means accepting that slow death.
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But by nerfing u made people spend and wasted more than on grinding. Isnt that just slap ur own face? Stop bs.
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To answer these questions specifically:
The recent update has had zero effect on my time investment or routine. I didn’t use Iron May before, despite having her at 550. I might use her now. I didn’t really use the 1
much at this point either. I expect to spend less time in PvP because I probably won’t lose 800-900 points per event to low level Aunt May teams.
Balancing characters like this is a requirement for protecting my long-term financial and time investments. I’m on day 4654 today. I have 202 550s. I have every character (except Famine and Spider-Horse) ascended to 5. In PvP I am frequently running 670/672/672. I am the definition of an invested veteran. Very little of what I have worked and paid for is worth anything competitively. Players with significantly less investment in terms of time or money are able to beat me trivially, using the overpowered characters that I refuse to use.
I want the devs to focus on forced meta shakeups.
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Nerf them all from orbit
It’s the only way to be sure.
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Hey, im only 2 days ahead of you! Its nice to see these numbers, just to see who’s been there with me since the beginning.
Although, I think i already knew this about you, but still. 
Anyways, carry on!
Are you at the maximum? I think I missed a couple days along the way, but they didn’t start daily rewards until the game was out for a few months. I started playing back when characters had to get to 20/20/20 on covers to max out!
Do these recent updates respect your daily time investment and family/work routines?
They do, my roster isn’t maxed and heroic takes long to clear. Nerfing characters that made clearing even possible makes this outlook even worse
Do you feel your long-term financial and time investments into your rosters are being protected?
No, if the characters are fun and used to much, they will get hit it feels like
Do you want management to prioritize engine optimization (Unity fixes) over forced meta shakeups?
Yes
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Claiming that catering to veterans is a way to ensure death and then touting your length of time played and how the changes benefit you specifically in a sea of overwhelming disapproval is certainly a choice
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Hello, just wanted to say im very much here.
Not qualified to comment on any of this because the poster asked for serious debate. And you dont come to this guy for that.
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Holy cow you weren’t kidding as now we have OrbitingDesth!
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This is 100% the issue. You can’t rebalance the game to the level where you don’t have significant reduction in the highest usage of characters unless you nerf the top meta and slow the game so much that you will just kill the game. MtG (the actual card game) is the same, you have a small handful of cards that are used a ton and a bunch of cards that are rarely used. The difference is just sample size, MtG has tens of thousands of cards at this point compared to 400 options in this game. I understand that Iron May was broken and the initial decision to make her 4 ascended better than 5 ascended was an error (intentional or unintentional), but at the same time, it didn’t really have any problems for the game as a whole. She was easy to kill on defense in PvP, it allowed newer rosters to get ahead sooner, and she wasn’t very useful in the harder challenges like the SCL 10 challenge node at harder difficulties or the new heroic mode you just rolled out. Your problem is that if you aren’t going to make characters as good as her going forward and you are going to slow play how long it takes to get useful 6*, the game will die. You must embrace power creep like MtG did. As the OP points out, this game is partly for competitive players, partly for puzzle players and partly for collectors. In general time playing the game is the most important resource for most of those three players, with some exception I imagine for the puzzle players. The player base will always shift towards the characters that generate the resources the fastest if they are competitive or collectors because those characters save those players the most time in real life. The game should focus on QoL improvements over your current strategy of trying to balance a meta that isn’t broken. I have lived through truly broken metas many times in this game, and this was not the case here.
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I am at Day 4656 as well. Wonder Twins powers activate! Wait, why aren’t they in this game yet?
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Very well done, I agree with some, disagree with some, but you and I also want different things. For the sake of data:
Do these recent updates respect your daily time investment and family/work routines?
- Time investment? Im looking for reasons to play more, not less. Im here to challenge myself, not slow my heartrate to the point of sleep. Though I understand the comfort of routine and your perspective. Routine? No, but I very much dislike the current routine, the fact that most rewards live in PVE frustrates the hell out of me, just not enough to quit again, yet.
Do you feel your long-term financial and time investments into your rosters are being protected?
- No. This one I do feel is a problem, however, it is also a problem that they broke the meta and hit the ceiling. There is no money to be made on new characters that cant end the match faster than immediately.
Do you want management to prioritize engine optimization (Unity fixes) over forced meta shakeups?
- Absolutely not. Please make the game more fun for me to play. Totally acknowledging I have experienced very few non gameplay issues on my Smamsmung. Please fix gameplay bugs, but Apple crashes mean nothing to me personally (other than I dont actually want those people to quit either, regardless of their tech choices).
They are in quite the dilemma. Problem is, who spends more money, the people who want puzzle, or the people who want mindless comfort? I still believe its possible to achieve both, just maybe with someone else who is more creative or cares more about the game.
I will remind everyone here that we are both right. The way you enjoy this game is important, especially since its what they turned it in to, whether intentional or not. However, I personally cannot agree with you on key aspects, because my brain can’t comprehend having fun the way people who are fighting for May to stay play 
. It is in fact, the opposite of what I enjoy about this game.
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Cool take Bomber, I think you are what I would consider a puzzle player and your view makes total sense in my headspace. I might want to play more myself, but that interest would really only be piqued by a whole new gameplay system or new events, etc. Extra rewards for more playtime or rebalancing characters does not at all make me want to play this game more.
One point you brought up that I constantly see in these discussions is that 0 turn wins are due to characters, but to me I think that issue is due to supports, unless I am wrong (and I suppose some AP power-ups). I think the issue with 0 turn wins starts there, more so than the characters. Some of the supports that allow you to start with 5 or 6 AP are just broken in my opinion, far more than any character. At least with AP power-ups the max you could start with was 4 AP in any color and they were a finite resource (or at least cost you something to buy more of). For fellow former MtG players out there, its like I get to start the game with 5 lands already in play for reference.
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Totally agree that the turn 0 wins themselves are a product of supports, I also still believe those should be addressed. I dont however think they are what made May out of balance, she doesn’t need starting AP to show you that, any other decent partner will.
I will say, I am no longer concerned with starting AP supports going in to a fight, because May was the one who made it a death sentence.
Ill end this here so we dont keep spinning, just wanted to make sure my beliefs were understood.
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There are characters and team comps to counter these things and do so effectively at base power levels. I use electro, 4*5 captain Britain and 3*5 Agatha for juggsam (but 4 daredevil works too for the stun but I like Agatha for the protect and strike tiles overwrite) . I mainly lose because of thanos copter causing multiple turns which just overwhelms me before Agatha’s passive kicks in. If I survive turn one I usually win
Same with mbaku, namor and chasm. Fantasticar overwhelms and namor starting with xxx black is stupid but if I survive turn one 45 Avalon’s protect tiles will colossus match damage reduction helps me whilst 5 *white tiger does the damage.
So many characters have kits designed to counter other characters but they’re useless when supports win or lose the game for you and I like trying to find team comps to counter other teams.
Plus I don’t mind if I have to use a health pack or even if I have to swap teams whilst one recovers. There are so many characters I want to use. I don’t want to be stuck into using the same teams over and over again to counter specific supports
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My original presentation deck was engineered to serve as a direct form of communication that a corporate C-suite executive can understand when the inevitable boardroom questions arise: “Why is our acquired asset underperforming?” or “Why is a product we expected to perform at an X capacity failing to deliver expected lifecycle returns?”
When those macro-economic questions hit the table, a Product Manager, the development team or a forum moderator can simply slide these visual cards across the desk and shrug.
Unlikely? Naive? Perhaps.
After all, veteran player networks explicitly warned management of these exact structural deficits long before implementation [e.g. bluewolf, post 105, Shaking Up the Meta].
The current operational failure has played out precisely as predicted.
On the other hand, it’s obvious that the squeaky wheel gets the oil, evidenced by rapid hotfixes [Spider-Horse’s pool alignment, immediate quest reward bug patches]. Who to listen to, when, and whether action only triggers when a disaster hits the accounting team’s daily dashboard remains the core governance question.
Not here to argue. Not here to complain. This is me hoping beyond hope that this final deck will ultimately be of use to someone who has the power to effect change.
The qualitative audit and macro-population review:
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