Simon you do have it right. I am saying that the devs do not understand much of what we experience in the game because they have no frame of reference. This is why simple progression things like avatars, skins, and alt covers are foreign to them. They think that doesn’t sound like “fun”. Making them endure having their characters “funbalanced” that is “fun”. Except it is not when there is no end goal. By devaluing 4* with the concurrent nerfs and buffs of 3* for PvP they are running a risk of just having people give up because they believe their effort is worthless. It again comes down to the fact they don’t have to decide to throw away multiple covers for iso so they can keep leveling Goddess because she is a great character and if it is your goal to compete for the top of the leader board you need her. It comes down to the fact that they are slowly but surely making sure every top tier player feels like their efforts are futile because they’ll just change things for the worse for them. If they had to spend all their time and/or money to make their rosters and choose which characters to keep and which ones to sell as if it was real then they might have a clue.
But of course they can’t and they shouldn’t this is their job. Nobody asks you to go home and do your job for “fun” in your spare time.
Which is why I keep asking them pick some upper tier players and get some feedback from them and use it to improve the game overall.
Of course they remain resistant to that idea too.
The prevailing theory is that cover packs are the primary revenue generator of MPQ, and so Demiurge can’t afford to cater to the gameplay needs of forumites who know better than to waste their HP on packs.
Personally, I think the devs could do quite a bit of good in soliciting more feedback about potential balancing and features from players first before they implement stuff willy-nilly, but I guess that’s too much to ask? Maybe it isn’t. I ask!
Solid 3* roster with some 4*s, on day 420-ish. Out of the eight Season PVPs that I played, I placed Top 10+ in all but the one where I started at #495 - had to settle for #11 finish on that one. Try it some time if you don’t need to get the top progression awards - it’s like a LR but with real covers and ISO for your time.
Catering to the average player destroys games. The average player will play for a bit and then move on before investing any money. You need to at least partially cater to the hardcore. League of Legends makes its money from the people who stick around for years at a time, I think Hearthstone is the same. Pro streamers generate a lot of buzz for those “free” games which generates interest which in turn generates revenue. Pissing off your players (like with these recent nerfs) generates negative feedback and makes people not even want to touch your product.
Take World of Warcraft for instance. Easy-mode “Looking For Raid” garnered massive positive feedback from casual players but ended up killing the subscription base. Casuals would run the new dungeons then unsubscribe until new content came out (if they even come back at all). Cross-realm no-communication-required “raiding” killed the community/socialization aspect of the game and recruiting became much more difficult. Being unable to find replacements meant the veterans got fed up and ended up quitting too. Going for months without listening to your hardcore player base kills games.
The problem is you can’t be in a top 100 alliance with that style of play. The bonus cover per event is really nice and the legendary cover at the end of the season (used to be) enticing.
I generally agree with your sentiments, but I think it’s also wise to acknowledge that while Riot’s player-first approach works for them due to sheer player volume, it is incredibly risky in the mobile market where even former mobile kings like Zynga have taken financial beatings.
There’s a lot of really interesting talks and theory surrounding F2P monetization for mobile games. It’s not quite as simple as you make it seem.
WoW is a poor example since it’s still a powerhouse (enough to draw me back in again with WoD). Still generates billions. LFR and such are amazing features, you’d be really hard-pressed to prove that 1) WoW is dead (your references to “killing” the game) and 2) “Casual” features were the reasons hardcore people left. In fact, WoW’s casual approach was the reason they were so mind-blowingly successful in the first place. Lots of EQ veterans looked down on WoW with disdain at the time.
WoW is certainly still a powerhouse. Not as big as it was, but it still rules the MMO roost (and MMO pocketbooks).
That’s definitely an issue. I’m not saying there are not issues that need to be dealt with. All I’m trying to say it that maybe some of them are not really the preacher singing to the choir, but maybe the top percentile singing to it’s fellow minority. All I’m talking about is prospective.
That’s how competitive gaming generally nurtures itself, yeah. You learn the basics and then you look to the top for the most effective combinations, even in things like fighting games, RTS, or MOBAs.
This is my point though. MPQ doesn’t have that and maybe, just maybe, they don’t want it to have that? MPQ isn’t designed to be a competitive game, in my opinion. It’s not Skullgirls, it’s not Call of Duty, it’s not Starcraft, it’s not League of Legends. It’s Candy Crush with Marvel properties.
Yet, they don’t cater to the average player. The entire design of the PvP system, does not allow average or casual play to get much joy out of it. Sure, you can play it to pick up your token and nothing else, but that will very quickly make you realize its not worth playing for that.
PvP needs to allow the ultra-competitive to play at the highest levels without making the average casual player feel that PvP sucks. How many people do you see come on the forums to post about how demoralizing it is for them to lost more points while playing a match then they do from winning it?
When this game first began, it was a very niche game. It drew Puzzle Quest and Marvel fans. Now it is crossing more into the mainstream. This market expansion needs to be grasped and allow the game to grow. This is very similar to what happened with World of Warcraft. Look at how the PvP system evolved from requiring precise organized tactic, to more of a participation award system. Along with that Blizzard raked in the cash. You would still have the elite PvP guilds, but even those players that were terribly bad at PvP could, through play, reach many of the rewards. It would take them longer, but they were not shut out. New players would also be in awe of how much more powerful the gear the elite players had, and had a target to strive for. A target that felt reachable.
TL;DR: As the game has crossed more into the mainstream, it needs to embrace the average players without alienating those that made it successful. == Also More Money, More Money, More Money.
I used to be in shade’s alliance before I temporarily quit (they keep pulling me back in). I have seen his roster. He has a minimum of 9-10 166 (all the good ones) and plenty that can be 166 within a week or so if he so decided. I think he has figured out what is fun for him. He could easily have a maxed out xforce and 4thor (can’t remember if he did not already max them out but he may not have since the alliance is more pve based). He can definitely compete with anyone, but he has decided that he doesn’t want to spend a net negative HP every 2 seasons as you will need to buy a slot for the next new character just to “compete in the top echelon.” He gets enough HP to continue to level all the good characters and not spend a dime since he generates enough HP with the way he plays. He gets to balance his work, life, and game. For him that is fun. The problem is not the way he plays, but that the game can be easily gamed to maximize your roster without the crazy time sink that most of us are using. Sorry for using you as an example shade.
Yep, I used to be able to do that before I started 4*s. I can still do it, but chances are I will end up in a 12 hour + old bracket instead of a fresh one. Way too risky.
Back on topic though, I feel like I lost a little progress. I ended last season by completing 4* Thor, and was very happy. The nerf took that, but the buffed characters lifted me up a bit since as 4* transitioner I have every 3* completed. On the other hand 3s are able to compete with me now if they also have them, so I am not really sure what to think. The last few pvp’s weren’t that bad, I didn’t use Xforce or 4 Thor and got alright points, not as great as I was able to before though.
I think buffing is a good idea, they just need to tweak the buff to 3s or 4s so 4*s don’t become a very slight advantage to none at all (depending on the character).
A brief perusal of the alliance recruiting page reveals that 600 points per PVP will get you into at least a couple Top 100 PVP alliances. When I get completely burned out on PVE and being a Top 100 PVE alliance commander, I’ll likely join a PVP-only alliance, late-start every event, and move even further into retirement. 
Oh, and just to reply to grunth’s post, I have maybe four covers for Thora / Starlord / Elektra / Fury and my XF is 5/5/2 and lvl 180. But yes, my 3*s are solid.
Sorry for all the OT posting.
BTW, to whoever thinks sharding is hard to game, I have seen others in my former alliance game that system very well. They are 3-4* transitioners or firmly in the 4* with multiples of all the best characters. They have figured it out and rarely see any max players during their late start pvp battles. Again, this game is not hard to figure out which makes it easy to game…that is the real problem and that is how the rich keep getting richer.
It wouldn’t surprise me if you woke up one day and found that you can’t join events until the bracket is full. If you try to queue for one too late and the event ends before it fills it would automatically place you in the next time slice and wait until that bracket is full before you can start. That way they can get more HP out of you by forcing you to use shields if you want a decent reward.
So what do you think the next step would be? It feels to me that the new 4* nerf and the boosting kinda puts the focus on 3* instead of 4*. kinda like taking a step backwards. it feels like they closed off the top of a barrel and now feels like it will start bursting at the seams in the middle. i made a post about the some potential next steps for the game.
https://forums.505go.com/discussion/26374 you can scroll down further in the post for a better explanation
What do you think the next thing should be? I think we need a new earth i.e reboot with new heroes from 1* and up and player start from scratch, non-competitive events( come together for a threat event), more mini events for covers and back stories for character, and more story based content. roster slot elimination due to influx of new characters and pricing change to make most items reasonable so the game can be supported by average players not just whales.
I think the reality is that the Dev team is too small to take on the changes we would like to see. With the game they have right now, they’re locked into making new characters to generate revenue. That presumably takes all of their time, and you can’t hate them for it really. When/if that stops working well enough I don’t see the Head Honcho saying, “Lets hire more people and turn this ship in a better direction!”
A general question that no one seems to ask but is in many of the comments is, “What is the goal of MPQ?”
Can you beat it? no - so achievements? - no, Scores vanish after a few days. What’s left? - Your roster- it’s the only thing to show what you’ve accomplished
Now when progression is removed where end goals (like 4*) are made into worthless trophies something will happen. Players will come to realize that although the core - albeit extremely simple - match system is fun for short stints, players will get bored with an unevolving gameplay. The goals they achieved will then be changed into something worthless. The whole purpose of play - to gain/earn/rise - is removed. What’s left?
Bejeweled with a Marvel logo
The problem with the current meta point systems is they force tedious play style because the reward bands are stingy. Is this to stretch out these goals? Why do only 10 out of 1000 get the first 3 of 13 covers of a new character when maybe half of those people played more than enough to earn the rewards. I guess because the top 10 don’t sleep? Is that really good game design? There’s a rotten core and MPQ despite having well done effects and great art with a huge backlog of Marvel to pick from. If the devs would be willing to try other games and see why they work, why people enjoy them, what’s enticing and keeps people coming back. They might fix the major flaws with MPQ. We don’t want to play 50 hours in one pve for fun. It’s tedious. It’s terrible. 12 hour double subs is one of the worst aspects of the game and a terrible half-way at rehashing old content. Remove the grindy elements of the game. The gauntlet is great despite the rewards because it’s play at your own pace. Deadpool Daily is fantastic because it’s play at your own pace.
Fix the core. Worry about characters later
What’s sad is, there’s no incentive to fix things with any urgency if the money is already rolling in (which is what I suspect).
It’s a good question. Someone posted this link a week or so ago in another thread (sorry I can’t give credit because I cannot remember who originally posted it):
http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/26/only- … exclusive/
Not sure whether this is correct, and even if it’s correct if it applies to MPQ, but I also think it suggests its at least debatable whether top players thinking/feeling the way they do is naive.
I watched Kripparrian’s Hearthstone monetization analysis a week ago and it comes to a similar conclusion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ywEvf8fRw). According to a reddit poll (of around 21,000 people) 28% spent nothing, 55% spent $50 or less, 69% spent $100 or less yet overall the average per player is $110. Hardcores + Whales are what keep the game afloat and their suggestions should be heeded.
While you raise an excellent point re: reward band, I think the answer is quite simple. First, by making the first 3 covers so exclusive, the exclusivity encourages players to grind, and perhaps in the process buy health packs to keep up with the pace. If you’re a player who is JUST out of top 10 and out of heal packs to continue your grind, the pressure to buy the packs and continue on is tremendous because the alternative means you wasted all that time grinding for the third cover that you won’t be able to get. Second, the exclusivity of newly released covers create pressure on the player base to BUY cover packs, and hope they’ll get the new cover.
So while the reward scheme is indeed terrible for the player base, D3 knows what it’s doing and their goal is to convince players to pay for health packs and cover packs.